Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)

Much of the area was covered by colleagues. I know some other members talked about how the profitability of the insurance companies had not changed, but it has changed and has changed dramatically.

These reforms have absolutely worked, but they have worked for the insurance companies. Those companies have made a fortune, many millions, on the back of the reforms introduced in these Houses. I campaigned for those reforms, and I stand by them. At the time, however, I also called, as did the Alliance for Insurance Reform, for a clear commitment from the industry to pass on the savings made. Anyone who is surprised, shocked or aghast that the insurance companies are pocketing this money is silly and stupid. This is what insurance companies do. We should not be surprised in any way whatsoever.

I have been listening to this debate for quite a while. I will speak freely and frankly. The Government is a puppet of the insurance industry. The types of reforms we need will not be achieved when I have heard Ministers of different hues - it is nothing to do with personality - over the years regurgitating the stuff the industry is telling us that it takes a while for reforms to have an impact and all the rest.

There is so much to be done when it comes to insurance. Some of the reforms outlined in the programme are needed. We have to ask ourselves who we, as legislators, are doing this for? Are we introducing reforms in order that we deepen the pockets of the insurance industry? That is what we have done. That is unacceptable. Premiums are not going down; they are going up. The insurance companies sat here in 2018, when they were begging us to introduce reforms, and told us that if premiums did not go down by 20%, the committee would need to be calling them in and asking serious questions. In 2019, representatives from company after company, including AIG and Aviva, sat before this committee and said they would target a rate of 5%, which is the insurance industry norm. What are they getting? It went up to 8%, then 10% and then 13%. When it hit 10%, the Central Bank of Ireland, a conservative organisation in itself, said the companies were making bumper profits.

We can talk about legal costs, which are a real issue. We can talk about competition, which is another issue. There is a bit of facade whereby we kind of pretend we are doing something about competition when we really are not. It will all mean nothing unless the elephant in the room is dealt with. The elephant in the room is that the insurance companies are not passing this on.

I have no appetite to introduce insurance reforms that are going to benefit and deepen the pockets of the industry. We should not do it any more until we get the commitments that were sought. Former Minister of State, Michael D’Arcy, sat down with those companies in 2019 and asked for commitments in the context of reducing premiums. They did not give him those commitments. We are kidding ourselves if we keep on going through this.

I have a question for everyone in this room. I will put it to the Alliance for Insurance Reform. What measure in the new programme of insurance reforms will actually lead to reduced premiums for customers? Is there more than one measure, because I cannot find one? There are things that may increase the profitability of the industry, but I do not see any measure. I heard Leo Varadkar, when he was Taoiseach, talk about giving the industry six months or else. I have never seen what the “or else” looked like. I heard the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, the former Minister and current European Commissioner, Michael McGrath, and the former Minister of State, Michael D’Arcy, speak in the same vein. What the industry is doing to customers is a joke.

I got an insurance premium renewal. There is competition in the motor insurance sector. We would rather that there was more. It is great to have more competition, but there are plenty of insurers in the insurance sector. Serious profits are being made. My insurance premium renewal included an increase of 34%. I had no claims, accidents, crashes, additional penalty points or any of that. How does this happen? It is just a pure and utter rip-off. It is happening because it is allowed to happen. I have asked for legislation to be brought in to show exactly how much the companies are making as a result of these reforms, but this has been stopped by this committee and by Members who are sitting here and giving out about what is happening. That is the elephant in the room. We are wasting our time unless we deal with the main issue.

While I know Mr. Hanley is saying that we, as a committee, will take the insurance companies to task – and we no doubt will - it will just be a case of one excuse after another unless it is called out. Representatives of the insurance industry were before this committee talking about fraud until we challenged them on it. They do not mention fraud any more. Then it was about the reforms we introduced. The CEO of Insurance Ireland said that there impact would not be immediate and that it would take six months. Six months have come and gone. Six years have come and gone, and insurance premiums are going up.

Now, it is something else and something else again. There are things that are pushing up prices; I am not naive about that. Cars are more expensive. Repairs are more expensive. There is all that. When you strip it all back, however, profitability is way out of sync with European averages. That is the issue here.

The insurance industry agreed a schedule of reductions via reforms when the first suite of reforms came in about 20 years ago. I will put the question to the alliance. I commend the work it is doing. What measure in the new programme - the new suite of measures and the action points - will guarantee reduced premiums for customers?