Peter Roche (Galway East, Fine Gael)

I thank both sets of witnesses for coming before the committee. Listening to both opening statements, I have to ask why this is continuing. Quite a number of years ago, we thought much of this was behind us. I am taken by the deficiencies mentioned in both statements. I sincerely thank the witnesses for being so graphic in how they have outlined those deficiencies. Both organisations are pleading for positive change and asking the committee to make progress with urgency.

That is quite strong, and it is necessary. The thing that strikes me is that if we did not have whistleblowers and "RTÉ Investigates", this would continue. Therein lies the problem for me and for the general public. You can do all the research you like, but when it comes to inquiring how patients are being managed within the care settings, nursing home staff are obviously going to say residents are very happy, are being well-cared for and that there are no deficiencies. Yet, no patient was interviewed with regard to any of this. There are many fine people who, for one reason or another, have been confined to nursing homes and who have the wherewithal to be part of any process relating to compiling a report on how nursing homes are performing.

One of my first jobs was working in a nursing home, and that is not to today or yesterday. One of the things I found - and, of course, the same situations exist today - was that there were people who were completely unsuited to care roles. For a caring role, one of the strongest attributes required is a level of empathy and of being at the patient's level. Quite honestly, one of the sickening images we saw on the "RTÉ Investigates" programme was of two people who seemed to be shuffling patients who were very vulnerable as if they were going to the mart. We cannot allow people in care homes to be treated like some animals would be treated in the mart when being readied for sale. I found that really disgusting. It begs the question as to the suitability of some people in the context of performing a caring role. If they do not have the necessary attributes, they simply should not be involved. The responsibility in that regard falls on the management of nursing homes. There must be some way that those in management can be held responsible.

In the not-too-distant past, I stated that people sometimes look for a job that gives them a wage. In a care home, however, what people should be looking for is a career where they have all of the attributes and skills necessary to allow them to carry out their duties with dignity and respect for both the patient and themselves. No matter what policies we put in place, we are almost certain to have some repeats when there are people who are incompetent in this regard. The task is enormous.

On having a single entity to manage matters going forward, Safeguarding Ireland has advocated for an independent safeguarding authority with oversight powers. What I want to ask is how it could clarify that this body would interact with existing bodies such as HIQA and the HSE? How would that be managed? Will both organisations indicate how we avoid duplication of roles between the new authority we want, or for which we are pleading, and entities like the decision support services of An Garda Síochána? Those are my questions.

I reiterate that was taken by the opening statements. As regards the deficits, it is embarrassing, to say the least, that we are still managing an area in respect of which so many questions have been left unanswered. I commend the witnesses on the work they are doing.