Mr. Séamus Dooley:

First, there is nothing wrong with that and there is nothing wrong with existing to make money, but to suggest that it is independent means that, by definition, those who are funded by the licence fee are not independent. I reject that assertion. "Commercial" is a better description of those who make programmes for profit. Where it is relevant in this debate is what happens when the public service programme, which is outsourced, ceases to make enough profit for the shareholder. That is why it is relevant to the debate.