Ms Lucy O'Donoghue:

To drive home the point I made earlier, it was me who had the conversation with Mr. Moran and it was me who had the conversation with the Department of Finance. At that stage, despite the fact that I had worked with Mr. Moran and knew him well, I never asked him if he was gay because that is how it was. You understood but you never spoke. While I was on the phone to the Department of Finance, I was speaking to a like-minded person who was sympathetic and understanding. They never asked the question, but asked if the person would never benefit under what we have. I remember it clearly. It was odd because we were all talking about someone and something but not mentioning the important point. We just did not do it. However, we did the right thing at that time. The opt-out of the scheme was the refund of contributions. Mr. Moran opted out of the Civil Service part of the scheme and stayed in the bank scheme because it was compulsory when he joined the bank, so he has some part but not the other.