Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Thursday, 3 July 2025
Committee on Defence and National Security
General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed)
2:00 am
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent) | Oireachtas source
I welcome Ms Ní Bhriain and Mr. Kelly. I also see Mr. Roger Cole in the Public Gallery. I have met Mr. Cole several times down through the years on various campaigns. It is good to see him here. Starting with the declarations, I was involved in the campaigns on the Lisbon and Nice treaties, the Single European Act and various other issues over the years. I can recall these declarations. I thank Mr. Kelly for providing the copies of them, which I read again this morning. I note these are national declarations and not made by a political party or a government. They were made on behalf of the Irish people and are attached to the Nice and Lisbon treaties. I recall that the late Raymond Crotty took a case to the Supreme Court in 1986, which he won. That ensured we would have referendums on all other subsequent major changes in terms of integration into the European Union. I am in favour of being part of the European Union, by the way. I might have some disagreements about what shape it takes, but I think it is a good thing that we are in a Common Market and a Union, whatever faults the latter may have. Do the witnesses envisage a constitutional challenge to this change being taken in the courts if it is passed in legislation?
Turning to the veto, the document submitted to the committee helpfully sets out the number of occasions when the veto was not used. It was stated that "264 out of 284 resolutions voted on at the Council were passed with no power exercising a veto." The witnesses might address this aspect in terms of reform of the Security Council. I recognise that things are not the way they should be in the context of the permanent members of the Security Council. I remember lobbying in Geneva for Ireland to have a place as a non-permanent member several years ago. People there from different political persuasions were very receptive to the case we were making because Ireland was an independent state that had been colonised. One part of the country is still somewhat colonised, but, thankfully, work is in progress there. The fact we were a neutral state meant that states that had been formed out of former colonies in the southern hemisphere, in particular, were very open to our case, as indeed were others. This helped Ireland to get a place as a non-permanent member on the Security Council. I see the need for non-permanent members to have an equal say at the UN Security Council as one of the reforms that must happen.
On the question around us abdicating our responsibilities - Ms Ní Bhriain might address this point - we are piggybacking on Uncle Sam and John Bull. The RAF and the Yanks look after us. I ask the witnesses to comment on that.
Mention was also made of self-certification. The Government has a majority in the Dáil and would be self-certifying. The argument is made that this is democracy and we have sovereignty. The Irish people have elected parties to the Dáil, a government is formed from those members and that government is democratically elected. We all accept that is the case. The point being made is that this is the ultimate sovereignty. I ask the witnesses to address that argument.
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