Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)

That has been happening, yet energy usage has still been going up and up. There is a concept called the Jevons paradox, which suggests that as we get more efficient at it, we end up using more and more. It is all very well to tell people not to worry and that the usage will reduce. If we had 100% renewable energy in Ireland now, this would be a different conversation and we could talk about it, but we are not at 100% renewable energy. Every extra piece of energy we are using comes from fossil fuels. It is getting us further away from being 100% renewable. This is a choice for the here and now.