Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome both gentlemen here this morning and thank them for bringing their expertise and clarity to their arguments. I have found it very useful. Following on from Deputy Callaghan's point on the whole debate, unfortunately, we live in a world where the headline dictates the story in many ways. It can be very difficult to move beyond the headline because the world moves so fast, . The adage, "when you are explaining, you are losing" springs to mind, especially when it comes to this debate. Somebody can say we are throwing away or weakening our neutrality. We are trying to explain that we are not. It takes a while to explain all of that. Deputy Callaghan's seven minutes were taken up with it. It is probably difficult for people to tune in and get a rational picture from both sides. That is unfortunately where we are at. I suppose the fear is that the current system with the UN Security Council and the P5 is beyond reform. Is that our guests' opinion? Has it become redundant, really? Is it a case that we are just going through a point in time where the world seems to be in turmoil and we might get over this blip, if I can use that phrase? Perhaps by removing it, as some people would say, we are more or less sounding its death knell and that is the end of that. Are we at a point where it has gone beyond reform? That is my first question to both our guests.