Mr. Bernard Gloster:

I thank the Deputy. I think his extensive professional background informs his views. The day before yesterday, I met 600 staff from CAMHS, disability services and primary care services on a webinar. Some of the primary care staff who participated left me in no doubt about their views. The truth is probably in the middle. The Deputy is right when he says that primary care was always seen as a generic service. For good or bad, the determination was made, based on evidence, to specialise. As a result, we now have CDNTs, CAMHS and enhanced community care, which deals with chronic disease and integrated care for older people. The more we specialise and the more we advertise jobs for specialists, as the Deputy will know, the more we attract the people who were in the generic service to consider those specialisations, and they do. That leaves some level of natural depletion. Primary care faced challenges long before the pay and numbers strategy was implemented. I will say two things about what I intend to try to do about it. First, this year, we will have a more properly shared distribution among all those services. We are creating a single referral point into community services for children. Representatives of CAMHS, primary care services and disability services will assess them and route them appropriately. It is hoped that they will help each other in that spirit of integration. Second, we are planning, with the Department of Health, to do a short-term initiative to clear a number of primary care waiting lists. Then we will try to build up the number of staff in primary care to make the clearing of the waiting lists more sustainable. I would not for one minute say we will have 100% success in that. Part of our problem with primary care is that there is an absence of data and information. I have met the Deputy's colleagues, the heads of psychology services for the country. I was very encouraged by their responsiveness. This year, we are trying to make sure that doctoral psychology students are not counted as whole-time employees and therefore, not counted in the staff number. These are things I can do to help to increase the supply. Primary care has a huge role to play, but it faces challenges. The simple reality is that every single part of the health service, from a surgical department to a medical department, to an emergency department, to an older persons' service, to a children's service, are looking for multidisciplinary teams. However, the supply is not there to service all of that.