Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)

First, my condolences for the loss of the witnesses' colleague, Garda Flatley. It is a poignant day because today is the fifth anniversary of the passing of Garda Horkan and we should remember that. I have raised issues related to a whole range of concerns I have about An Garda Síochána at different levels, as well as about the manner in which gardaí are resourced. I am sure our guests are well aware of those concerns and that they have been brought to their attention by their colleagues. I would like their opinion on a number of issues, the first of which is something I raised last week with the Commissioner. I refer to the holster that Garda Horkan was wearing. We know now, beyond doubt, that there is an issue with these holsters and that they should not have been on issue to An Garda Síochána in the manner in which they were. I would like the witnesses' opinion on that.

The second issue is the storage of guns and ammunition. We found out last week, through this now-famous picture, how guns and ammunition are stored in Garda headquarters, with which all the witnesses are very familiar, I am sure. Defective ammunition was destroyed last week at a cost of €160,000. Would the fact that members from both organisations will have been issued with ammunition that was defective from 2017 until about March 2023 be a big concern? Would the fact that 17,000 live scan fingerprints of criminals have been lost and therefore cannot be cross-checked against other crimes be a concern? Would the fact that certification in the chemical, biological, radioactive and nuclear, CBRN, section of An Garda Síochána, has not happened since 2013 and that protective suits and breathing apparatus are out of date be of concern? Would the fact that we have had the storage of firearms and ammunition in the manner in which we had it and that some of the firearms, in particular, have got back on the street, somehow, be of concern?

Based on what I have said regarding all of those issues, do the witnesses have a concern in relation to how Garda management, gardaí and the force is being resourced? The second issue relates to the OPM. I agree totally with what Mr. Clogher is saying there. I am in the Clare-Tipperary division, in the Nenagh area. It covers east Clare. One could be in Whitegate and be called to Roscrea. It is damn well nuts. It is crazy. I know that towns like Roscrea and Nenagh have not had Garda cars. We have two motorways running through. If there is an accident on the motorway, forget about it. When the representative organisations put this forward - and they have done so on numerous occasions - what is the response they are getting to justify the continuation? I understand that the system for 999 calls is under review. That is also nuts. When the organisations put that forward, what response did they get? Do they believe there is an over-zealousness in relation to disciplinary proceedings? We saw what happened with that garda in Limerick. I know of many other cases which I will not go into here. There is one very famous one coming up soon and it is beyond comprehension how it has gone as far as it has done.

Finally, the chairman of the Policing and Community Safety Authority said recently that the issues being raised by gardaí were "stones in their shoes" problems. I hope I am not misquoting a person that I have time for but what do the witnesses think of a comment like that? The issues they are raising in relation to the OPM, recruitment, pensions, pay and other resource issues are "stones in their shoes" problems.