Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)

There is a lot in the Senator's questions. I will try to say a few words about each of them.

In respect of the ICJ ruling, the Government of Ireland takes very seriously the responsibilities that we have with regard to the ICJ. The issue that we need to consider is what is the mix of actions that will allow us to fulfil the obligations that we believe we have to that ruling. This does rehearse the answer I am going to give the Senator for her final question. We believe that the most effective interventions we can make to fulfil our commitment to the ICJ are the ones that we have delivered at a collective level. I refer in particular to the agreements or efforts in working with other members of the European Union. In order to exert that influence we, as a group of countries within the EU, have to move together and in a way that is co-ordinated, as opposed to individual countries going on their own and implementing national measures. It is my very strong judgment that Ireland implementing national measures, as the Senator suggested in her final question, would undermine our ability to build up those coalitions. It has been recognised, at least by the President and Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority, that through our work within the European Union we have been working very hard on their behalf and have been at the frontier of diplomatic activity within the EU. I could give the Senator so many examples, that I know she believes we could do more on, where we have had such an influence on the stance the EU has taken. I refer, for example, to our recognition of the State of Palestine. We had to do that in a co-ordinated with other countries. To do something as significant as that requires other countries having trust that we are going to move together with them. The reason we have not gone down the national sanction route is that we know it would undermine our ability to act collectively. That is my experience based on years of these kinds of engagements within the European Union.

In respect of the question on auto-enrolment and the various guardrails that the Senator believes are not in place, again I take her point seriously. For much of this, it would deal with the issue for me regarding diversification to avoid excessive risk, which is a clear expectation that we have of our pension trustees. I would hope that the prospect of anybody running pensions on behalf of the people of Ireland investing in cluster munitions is negligible.

In relation to the other points raised by the Senator, I would expect our trustees to consider whether the decisions they are making with the savings of the people of Ireland are appropriate and whether they get the risk-reward balance correct. I am sure that in considering all of that, they would consider issues regarding the sustainability of fossil fuels and the serious issues raised by the Senator, for example with regard to defence. The reason I am reluctant to put in place legislative guardrails on top of these kinds of funds is simply because they will be managing so much money on behalf of Ireland, if we get these set up properly, that I think it is far more important that we have the right people in place running them with the right guidance, which they have received from us, with the ability to independently make decisions. I fear that if we put in place legislation after legislation on the operation of these funds, they will be constrained in managing our money well and effectively, and the perception of these funds will be altered in a way that will influence how they will perform.

On the point made about the Central Bank, I have full confidence that the work they did in assessing whether the very narrow requirements of the prospectus regulation were met was done rigorously. I know they are considering very carefully this work at the moment, and I know that the Governor has alluded to you on that.

On the point that the Governor made about national measures in the letter that he sent to this committee, I will go back to the point I made at the very beginning about the influence we have brought to bear on how we support the people of Gaza at their terrible hour of need to try to mitigate the unbelievable suffering they are going through at the moment. Ireland can only do that collectively. Beginning to indicate that we can go down a national route hinders and harms our ability to do that.