James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

That is a very helpful and insightful comment. The Chairman is correct. We need to take a little bit of inconvenience - I will not say "pain" - to get to the final goal, which is a far more streamlined, efficient and effective public transport system. BusConnects is not just a few buses and a few routes. It is actually public transport corridors and quality bus corridors, which involve construction. I have been talking to the engineers involved. This is not just a couple of traffic cones. This is a fully fledged construction project that is under way. There are other projects to look at. The metro to the airport is under way. I have met with and spoken to Dr. Sean Sweeney, our esteemed project director, who has had a very accomplished career and is a very impressive individual, on a number of occasions. That project is kicking off.

As regards the DART+ expansion, I know the Chairman will be very familiar with the DART+ Coastal North expansion up to Drogheda, as well as the DART+ Coastal South down to Greystones and perhaps Wicklow. Planning permission has been secured from An Bord Pleanála for DART+ West to extend out to Maynooth. We are hoping to drive that on further, to Kilcock and possibly even to Enfield at some stage. As regards DART+ South West, planning permission is expected imminently from An Bord Pleanála to go to Hazelhatch and Celbridge. The next stage is on to Sallins and potentially into Newbridge and other towns in due course.

They are really important transformative projects. I have talked about Dublin because it is the capital city and it is where the greater bulk of the commuting population live, but, with regard to the regions, Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford are also getting BusConnects and local rail and light rail systems. As well as this, there are a number of Luas projects, including for Finglas, Poolbeg and Lucan. Luas Finglas was approved by Cabinet last week. We really are steaming ahead on all these projects.

To double back to the comment on fares, these projects cost significant moneys. There is a view that they are mega infrastructural projects. My strong view is that spending on transport infrastructure pays big dividends economically and in community gains. It is well worth spending on and we need to continue doing it. With regard to where we go on fare reductions, the evidence and international experience suggests the most important metrics, as mentioned earlier, are availability, frequency and reliability - having a bus or train available that is frequent and reliable. The element of how much it costs is probably slightly less important than these other three. The top three are about making it work, getting people where they need to go and being reliable.

I welcome the continuation of the fare reductions we have had. We will have a challenge in future years regarding how we will fund the service. Should it be self-funding, whereby the revenue collected would go back into it? There has always been a degree of State subvention. It is how public transport works. Public transport rarely, if ever, generates a surplus or a profit. This is not how it is intended to work. There will be subvention and the question is what degree of subvention is required. There is also the question of whether it takes from other projects as there might be other expansionary goals. It is an interesting question and perhaps it is something that would deserve a full discussion on its own.

There is also some evidence to suggest there is a certain point at which it becomes very attractive and further reductions beyond that point do not necessarily take people out of their private vehicles onto a bus or train but encourage people to leave their bikes at home or not take other active travel measures. It is all good, to be honest. If people are using a tram for two stops or 20 stops it does not really matter because they are still using it and this is welcome. It should be available. It should be very much affordable to all, including students, younger persons and older persons. This is key. There comes a certain point where there are diminishing returns once it is affordable. I am not convinced it should always be free. There are other policy considerations in this regard but this is a discussion for another day. If we are back here again next time, in whatever role, it is a discussion we can take up.