Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Let me answer this question carefully. If the Cathaoirleach wants to stop the clock for Deputy Crowe, he should feel free to do so because this is a matter for all of us. I will try to make a few points on this. I have met Carol and James. It was heartbreaking. Aoife was 16. My oldest kid got his junior certificate results yesterday. He is 15. I cannot begin to imagine what they have gone through and what they are continuing to go through. My promise and that of Bernard Gloster is that we are going to put Carol and James and Aoife's family at the centre of anything that we do. That is our starting point and that will be our end point.

In terms of an apology, Bernard has apologised, I have apologised and I know UHL has apologised and quite rightly. If Carol and James want a more public apology, I cannot see any issue with that if it would help, be it from me, the Taoiseach or whoever else it may be. Through their solicitor, the Johnstons reached out to the Taoiseach and I yesterday. I have publicly stated on several occasions that I was very happy to meet them. Their solicitor wrote to me and the Taoiseach yesterday to suggest that we have that meeting. In the first instance, what I want to do, as do the Taoiseach and Bernard Gloster, is sit down and listen directly to what Carol and James want.

I am very conscious of the fact that the report by Mr. Justice Clarke makes it very clear that there is conflicting evidence, that there were people who came in to give him evidence and there were serious discrepancies in what people said. If that was my child, I would want to know who was telling the truth. They are absolutely correct to ask for a factual account of what happened. Mr. Justice Clarke, to the greatest extent he could, took the evidence and laid out the conflicts in a helpful way. He was essentially showing us the conflict; he was not trying to simply pass it off. He was making the conflict very clear. I want to talk to Aoife's mum and dad about that and about the best way to get the truth. They have a right to the truth and significantly conflicting evidence does not get that for them. They also want accountability and they are right to want that. On the back of the report from Mr. Justice Clarke, the chief executive has launched the biggest process in pursuit of accountability in the 20-year history of the HSE. Six disciplinary processes have been initiated and several of them are at the highest level. Several individuals, as the committee will be aware, are on administrative leave.

That brings us to the question of where we go from here. Statutory inquiries do not always do what we want them to do and what grieving parents and others want them to do. I had one on the Grace case on my desk for several years. That was commissioned as a statutory inquiry in 2016 and it is now with the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman. The first report into the first phase of that work will be published shortly. There are other examples. The statutory inquiry investigating the events around Sergeant Maurice McCabe was launched but, on the back of that, any issue with the pursuit of accountability had to go back to the employer. Ultimately, the employer is tasked with accountability-----