Ms Phil Ní Sheaghdha:

Yes. There are not enough nurses or enough physical space. Invariably, in some of those locations, the nursing posts that become vacant are not replaced. That leads to delays, which is not acceptable in anybody's book.

In respect of the agency staff, the HSE tells us every month how much it spends on those staff. Across all categories in 2024, we are talking about more than €30 million a month. That is the point we are making. When a staff ceiling or cap is imposed, the expenditure on agency staff goes up. Changing the title will not increase the workforce. It is simply a case of describing the expenditure differently. We would prefer if there was not a ceiling. We want to reach safety-measured staffing levels without being as reliant on agency staff. We know this works because when we did a pilot study in 2020 on the framework on nurse staffing, agency expenditure reduced significantly once sufficient numbers were hired to meet requirements. Where we had a requirement for one nurse for four patients or one nurse for six patients and that number was funded and employed, agency expenditure dropped significantly. This information is available through the Department of Health. It is part of the framework for nurse staffing and skills mix.