Ms Phil Ní Sheaghdha:

There is an office in the HSE but again, it tells us that it does not have the facility to do anything other than ensure the first filling is based on the calculation as set out in the science.

The important point is - directors of nursing have been saying this to us - the data that are now being used are based on the 2021 activity. For example, we know that emergency departments have got much busier and we are still using data from 2021. We know that hospitals have got much busier. As my colleague from SIPTU has said, our population has grown and our dependence on the public health service for a large portion of that population has increased. In other words, we have a higher dependency on the public health service and we are basing the data need on 2021 activity in some locations. Plus, when we have turnover of staff, we have to make sure we have a mechanism that automatically brings us back to the level of safety. That is not happening.

In areas where the framework on our staffing never reached - that is, level 2 and 3 hospitals, as it was the big Dublin, Cork, Waterford, Galway and Limerick hospitals that were initially level 4-covered - they are categorically saying now, with regard to the backfill and turnover, the turnover in nursing and midwifery has increased. It has gone from 6%, which was the average, to just over 8.5%. If you are not backfilling, you are constantly working against a level that is going to ensure you are never going to have a safe level of care.