I welcome our guests. I remind people of their privileges and that they cannot participate if they are outside of Leinster House, etc. Those giving evidence have to be physically present within the grounds of Leinster House and should not criticise or make charges against any person, or identify him or her by name or in such a way that makes him or her identifiable. I think we all understand that.

I propose that we publish the opening statements from our witnesses. Is that agreed? Agreed. I suggest that we invite our witnesses to speak for five or ten minutes and that we allow members to ask questions and make comments for approximately five minutes. Members may ask more questions after everybody gets an opportunity to speak.

The committee is looking at Travellers' experience of the justice system. Today we will focus on Travellers in prison. The committee has already visited Castlerea Prison, Mountjoy Female Prison - the Dóchas Centre - and Oberstown Children Detention Campus. Travellers represent less than 1% of the population yet we make up 8% of male prisoners, 16% of female prisoners and 21% of children detained. The committee looks forward to hearing from our witnesses about this very important subject. We would like to hear about the experience of Travellers dealing with the justice system, including prison, and how we can make things better.

We are grateful to our witnesses for coming here today. They include representatives of the Irish Penal Reform Trust, the Traveller Justice Initiative, the Traveller Mediation Service and Barnardos.

Our witnesses are all very welcome here today.

It is very important for us as a committee to examine the justice system and, most importantly, why there are so many Travellers in prison in this country and what supports we need for Travellers. I am sure we all know the answers but it is important we document those answers and that this committee has a responsibility to work with the Traveller community.

We will begin with one quote a young man said to me in 2020. It was his first time to be in court and he was very nervous. I said to him he will be okay and that everything will be fine. He said, "No Eileen, I am already guilty." I said no, he would not be and that was up to the judge. He said, "I am guilty on the basis of being a member of the Traveller community." I want us all to be mindful of that before we start.

I will open it up to our witnesses. I ask Ms Saoirse Brady to begin.

Mr. Sean Laffey:

I will say a small bit about how we prioritise. We can see roughly €50 billion to €60 billion worth of work to bring our networks and wastewater and water treatment plants up to good standard.

Just so the committee understands, our networks and systems are live, meaning that every single day we have entropy. Things are deteriorating, the network is getting older and our plants are getting older. Plants that are currently compliant have capacity. The headroom is being eaten up by growth so that will have to be replaced. Two years ago, we got new regulations and requirements from the European Union which have been put into law. The goalposts have therefore changed and will change again next year for wastewater. The need is constant and the churn is constant.

If we were to get a capital investment programme of €10 billion, given that in every single area the priorities are so pointed and needed, we would essentially end up splitting it four ways between water, wastewater, network and treatment. In our heads, we have to keep an holistic view. If somebody said there was €13 billion available for water main rehabilitation and those types of plans the Deputy spoke about, we could certainly put those in place. Unfortunately, the demand across all of the asset base is so large that we can only hit the highest of them - things like compliance, growth, European Court of Justice cases, etc.