John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I wonder whether Mr. Conlon's predecessor happy with the process because what is happening now is that the waters are getting muddier and muddier. We do not know who to blame. We do not know who is responsible for it - the nameless PO, the working group or the commission. For me, it is the commission. They are the OPW's client, and it is delivering for them but they could not give a rat's whatever about the cost. It never came back and asked Mr. Conlon. It never questioned him, is what Mr. Conlon said. They never came back and asked, "How much is it? We need to know because we are watching every bob here on behalf of the Members and the taxpayer." They never did, and that is why I want the minutes of all of those meetings Mr. Conlon referred to so that, in turn, we have a thread of meetings and decisions and who knew what and when. By the way, we should have had that today. There are enough games going on in these Houses without the bureaucracy of the State engaging as well, although it is very good at it anyway. I feel that is a problem with the OPW.

I want to say something to the individual who might be watching this discussion, or the reports that are made of it, and the references made to the employees of the OPW and how demoralised they must feel.

Going back to basic contracts that were handed out way back in 1999 and 2000, to the Kilkenny flood relief scheme, the cost of which increased from €4 million to €50 million, to the issues with Durrow Abbey and to the issues recounted in reports from the Comptroller and Auditor General, I am shocked that the witnesses are telling me today they are going to learn lessons going forward, as they say in this House. I do not believe them. I believe they will make their best effort because they seem to be genuine in that regard, but they are up against it in here because I have seen the OPW recklessly spending taxpayers' money. It had nothing to do with the workers or the delivery of the project but certainly to do with the management of the systems in the OPW.

I and, I am sure, all the other members will give the OPW every support in trying to move the Titanic a little bit away from the iceberg, but I think it is too late. There is a culture there and it stinks. I am very upset over it and I think the public is very upset over it. It is not so much about the bicycle shed or cover, but about the whole process and how we have arrived here.

I am going to leave that with the witnesses and I hope they will consider what I have said during the break and give us some response. Right now, all we are hearing are Groundhog Day comments that have been given to previous meetings of the Committee of Public Accounts and this committee. There is no accountability, very little transparency and, certainly, no political leadership. That is how I see it.