Mr. Des Carville:

I think we are actually in violent agreement on the point but are looking at two different numbers at different ends of the spectrum. NAMA's job was to protect and enhance value and to get the best possible return under the circumstances. The Deputy is looking at the peak par value of the loans while I am looking from a different perspective. They are two sides of the same coin. That is what the loans were worth, plus the state aid add-on at that time. At a minimum, NAMA had to get that back. It has generated a €5.4 billion surplus on top of that.