Mark Wall (Labour) | Oireachtas source

I, too, welcome our guests. This follows on from our discussion this morning. A few important items have been raised, including the cost of disability. As has been correctly said, we have been talking about this for 30 years and various reports state different figures. Perhaps if our guests have come across an annual figure for the cost of disability they could share it with the committee as I am aware of three or four different reports. That would be important as we prepare our report and get it out in the future. What is their awareness of and what are they coming across on the cost of disability? We deal with it on a daily basis in our clinics.

However, the big issue for me in this session is the person-focused concept. We also come across this on a daily basis. People who have disabilities talk about their lives, rather than those of the people they live with. I mentioned earlier the few quid people get. That comes home readily when I talk to people about means-testing and what they face.

I have raised the area of appeals here before. It was mentioned again this morning that people are afraid, for want of a better description, to appeal a social welfare decision. Unfortunately, disability allowance is one of the areas I and all members, including the Chair, deal with regularly. We have to go through a huge level of disability allowance appeals. A number of solutions were offered today and I was particularly taken by the suggestion of a phone line being provided. I have come across this as well. If people do not come into my clinic or I do not go to their house, it is difficult for them to get to grips with what is being asked for. We raised it with the Minister before and she stated that the Department is looking at the whole idea of appeals and what is being asked for.

However, for me, the issue is that too many people are afraid of the appeals process. Without the support of the advocacy groups in front of us today or a public representative, too many do not go ahead with an appeal. People have every right to appeal and in many cases win.

I thank our guests for their contributions. Could they try to put some figures on the cost of disability? I have raised continuously at meetings of this committee the growth-versus-net argument, which has been mentioned here today, and the problem with using the gross figures. When people see a gross figure on a payslip or social welfare payment and then look at a bank statement, they see that what they get into their pocket is completely different. Unfortunately, many social welfare payments operate on the basis of a gross figure. I have given the example of the fuel allowance, on which people feel they are losing out given the use of the gross figure. In addition to giving me figures for the cost of disability, could our guests give us examples they have come across where the gross-versus-net issue has caused people to lose out on various social welfare payments?