Lynn Ruane (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Cathaoirleach and Deputy O'Callaghan. Obviously, this is a very important topic. Unfortunately, I am all too familiar with the impact of knife crime from my own life experiences from both ends - both in terms of the loss of life and in terms of people quite close to me who regretted carrying knives at a young age and their use. I will refrain from going into that but it is quite close to my heart in terms of trying to understand the benefits of focusing on it from a criminal justice perspective.

I was looking at the knife crime evidence briefing from the College of Policing in March. As part of the work done by the college - and I would prefer if our work focused on this - it has been determined that people carry knives for protection and out of fear. I refer, for example, to circumstances where a young person may feel that the only way to protect themselves from the threat of violence or whatever is to carry a knife. If a young person is caught carrying a knife for whatever reason - I accept that we need reduce the incidence of this and make sure it does not happen - and is charged in this regard and goes to court, it will reduce their chances in the future. A crime of this nature would come under the spent convictions legislation, which means that the conviction would remain on their record forever, especially if they are over 18. A large number of those who carry knives are under 18 years of age. In that context, we see issues of self-presentation, street credibility and people feeling like they need to carry a knife perhaps for reasons relating to respect. In the UK, the authorities refer to offensive weapon carrying. Obviously, there is also a gender aspect. A large amount of research into knife crime has shown the impact of adverse childhood experiences, abuse, neglect and other potential criminality within someone’s family or their immediate community.

The Deputy is aware that these things have to happen in tandem. However, when we think of sending out a message, part of me is asking who that message is going to. When I was a young person, I did not go and look at what criminal sanctions hung over me if I engaged in a particular criminal activity. Things were usually reactive. In other words, done in the moment and without thought. The message of creating harsher penalties does not actually do anything at all in respect of the person who may carry a knife because the likelihood of them even knowing what potential offence hangs over them is highly unlikely. It sounds like a message is going out to a cohort in society who may never encounter knife crime. This creates the illusion that we are doing something, that we take this very seriously and that we will enact this legislation to illustrate that. However, the legislation will have no tangible effect when it comes to the carrying of knives. This legislation does nothing for those people’s whose lives are most affected by knife crime and the carrying of knives.

I am sure the Deputy is aware of this from his own work and research on the Bill, but there was a No Knives, Better Lives campaign in the UK. That campaign was targeted and funded by the state. It was consistently funded. It looked at alternatives to violence and so on, but it was very targeted at and focused on knife crime. As a result of it, there was an 85% reduction in the number of individuals under the age of 18 convicted for the handling of offensive weapons. I would love us to get to a point where the public know that the State, the Government and politicians are taking matters seriously and whereby we ensure that we radically invest in communities and in the young men who are most at likely to carry knives. Sometimes we have to introduce the concept of punishment to convince society that we take something seriously rather than actually addressing the root causes of and the alternatives to violence. If we look at knife crime in terms of violence, fear and trauma, we can see that one of the core drivers of violence is humiliation. I refer here to young men feeling humiliated or scared, or of not being able to meet their economic needs. I know the Deputy and everyone else is aware of this, but I am always struck that we have to introduce a criminal justice approach to show that we take something seriously rather than adopting some of the very targeted approaches that other jurisdictions have adopted in trying to reduce crime rates.

This is more me giving my views instead of asking questions. I would love for the Bill to have a wider scope. It does not allow for amendments relating to, for example, targeted research. That is because it is a criminal justice Bill.

We cannot put in all the other amendments to coincide with it, or in parallel. I would love to see legislation that was acting in parallel instead of one before the other.

I do not know whether I have any questions specifically on the Bill. Obviously, my concern is that we use this Bill as a message to somebody but it does not do anything to improve or save lives on the ground. I understand why people want to do it but I am not sure I feel this is necessary at this time, ahead of massive campaigns to reduce and understand knife crime in the first place.