Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 23 May 2024

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence

Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for his amendment and thoughtful contribution. Throughout this process, I have been engaging and we have been taking on board very carefully the comments made by members of the committee. We have had correspondence with the committee. We have amended and taken on board two substantive issues in the presentation of this Bill to the House in terms of representations that were made.

On this, first, the principle of civilian primacy is sacrosanct in a democracy. How we actually manifest and operationalise that in an efficient Defence Forces is an issue meriting significant and substantive debate. As the Deputy knows, the Commission on the Defence Forces had some significant recommendations in this respect, and it has now been captured within the Strategic Framework

Transformation of the Defence Forces, which I published last September. This brings together in one overarching document the actions, including the legislative changes, to be taken to support the transformation of the Defence Forces. As I signalled and as I instructed my officials some time back, I will progress this to prepare comprehensive legislation - a separate defence Bill - to fundamentally reform the current high-level structures within the Defence Forces to encompass what the Deputy said, although it perhaps needs greater consideration on how all the interlocking parts come together.

In terms of the accountability question, as he knows, the legislation talks about one chief of the Defence Forces or CHOD, and the synergy between the three branches of air, naval and land. This comprehensive legislation is fundamental. The current situation is not conducive to the optimal administration or operation of our Defence Forces. In the 1954 Act, the Chief of Staff is an adviser to the Minister. I can direct brigade commanders and flag officers. In practice, that is not how it has evolved. There are a lot of operationally people who work together. They work through things and so on. Fundamentally, however, the Deputy's point is correct. This is what we have in the context of the 1954 legislative edifice. That needs fundamental change, but it needs to be comprehensive. For example, it should be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny here and to wider inputs. There will be issues around the accountability chain and how to manifest ultimate civilian control of the Defence Forces in this new architecture. There are very, therefore, profound issues. The Deputy has cut to the core of an issue that has been identified. We are going to address it through a separate defence Bill later this year. That will deal with military command and control and the issues he raised. It will comprehensively address the issues he highlighted in respect of the current legislation. I ask him to wait; this is a short enough Bill. It is not appropriate to plug in and insert an amendment now. It could have all sorts of implications that have not been comprehensively thought through in terms of the new legislation.

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