Mr. Gerard Brophy:

I have discussed colocation with the Deputy before. We are concentrating on the Barnahus model at the moment. The colocation is slightly different. As our colleagues in An Garda Síochána have pointed out, getting specific gardaí appointed to the Barnahus is really important. It creates that multidisciplinary team. To go back to what Senator Ruane asked about psychologists, because this all comes together, we have a different legal system in Ireland from the rest of Europe. In Iceland, where this was developed, and in the many other European countries that are doing it, it is done as part of an investigative legal process. The court process therefore kicks in much earlier. In Ireland, we prepare the cases for court and the court process comes later. The key to Barnahus working is having a really early multidisciplinary meeting with gardaí, social workers, the medical forensic team and other associated personnel such as an advocate for the child or family or a therapist. That is where the psychologist comes in, although other therapists may be involved.

In some cases, that meeting might include intermediaries who are to be appointed by the court. The intermediaries Act has come in. A second cohort of intermediaries has qualified in Limerick and they are going on the register. The Courts Service is working through a process to make them available. They will be key in understanding children, particularly children with disabilities. Many children who have been sexually abused have multiple vulnerabilities. It is about facilitating them to regulate themselves and to provide evidence in a constructive and open way that is open to cross-examination at a later stage. If you get a really good video in the beginning, hold that clear multidisciplinary meeting and make a good plan, the interviewers will be well equipped going in and the quality of the evidence will be better.

In other parts of our services, we have not been able to have such an integrated service across three different agencies, or four in the east. It is a high priority for us to get this model to work and to expand it; it is working in the west. Co-location might come later but we have partial colocation already with gardaí, social workers and HSE medical forensics, which is a bonus. The Deputy will probably agree that it is a very significant win in its own right. Once we have that set up, we can evaluate it and see how best to develop it. We can also see how best to develop it for other forms of abuse. I am very conscious that, in the beginning, the IDG made the decision to limit this to child sexual abuse but there is nothing to say that children who have been physically abused, neglected or emotionally abused could not benefit from it. We often find that children first come into care due to neglect or emotional or physical abuse but we subsequently find out they have also been sexually abused. There is a complementarity in these things but this is a key building block in protective services for children.