Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 16:

In page 54, between lines 28 and 29, to insert the following:

"(a) shall not invest those resources, directly or indirectly—

(i) in equity or debt securities issued by a munitions company as defined in Part 4 of the Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Act 2008,

(ii) or any financial derivative instruments, insurance policy, exchange traded fund or collective investment undertaking, whose underlying assets include equity or debt securities issued by a munitions company as defined in Part 4 of the Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Act 2008,”.

Deputy Sherlock can see if my good luck holds. This is the main piece. It does reflect some of the consideration we had in pre-legislative scrutiny in the committee. We made a strong recommendation on this, recommendation No. 15, in the PLS report. It stated that, in the view of the committee, money invested through auto enrolment should not be invested in things such as cluster munitions or in fossil fuels. Amendment No. 16 speaks directly to that. It cites the Cluster Munitions and Anti-Personnel Mines Act 2008. We have passed law in this regard. In Ireland, we do not agree that these types of munitions are acceptable. We do not want any of our money tied up in cluster munitions or anti-personnel mines, both of which we know disproportionately affect children. If we did not know that before now we need only look at some of the conflagrations that are happening throughout the world at the moment.

Amendment No. 17 also cites existing legislation, namely, section 49A of the National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Act 2014. That is with regard to fossil fuels. The NTMA has decided that it does not want to do business with fossil fuel undertakings and it does not want to be involved in financial derivative instruments, insurance policy exchange traded funds or collective investment undertaking whose underlying assets include equity or debt securities.

I do understand that it can be difficult to identify that sometimes and that is why that flexibility was built into the Act. In engaging with the Minister, Deputy McGrath, on the climate and infrastructure fund, I have had that discussion on how sure or otherwise one can be of where one’s money is going. I am open to the fact that people can make mistakes or the nature of companies can change over time. They may start out investing in one thing and then move into another. I accept all of that. But the basic premise as put forth by the committee during our pre-legislative scrutiny is that we do not want Irish money invested in these things. I do understand the argument that we give tax relief to pension contributions made at the higher level and you get your 40% or whatever else to invest in your private sector pension and we do not have the same level of oversight of where that money goes despite there being State intervention in terms of tax expenditures but I do not think the point of convergence should be downwards. The point of convergence should be upwards and this is our opportunity, with the auto enrolment scheme, to build in those values.

Amendment No. 18 is very simple. Section 74(2) has seven provisions in paragraphs (a) to (g), inclusive. Six of the seven provisions use the language of “shall” and paragraph (b) uses “may”. I would like to strengthen that.

Amendment No. 19, provides an additional piece to be inserted in section 74(5), whereby “'best long term interests' means the highest possible value of the pension, as well as the best possible health of the environment and society in which the participants live”. We all know that you do not eat money. If we think of this fictitious person who might benefit from this legislation in 2065, it will not matter a hoot if they have a great big pension pot but the world around them is burning to the ground. We should not make long-term investments blind to that fact. In fact all of our financial systems at this point should be bent away from pure profit making and towards ensuring that we have the sustainability principle embedded in everything we do as a society. And by the sustainability principle, I mean that we provide for the needs of the current generation while allowing for future generations to also have a good quality of life. This is just a definitional piece to embed that in the legislation and so that we are not just talking about the best outcome for the pension pot but that the best long-term interest means having a pension pot and a society within which you can spend it and an environment which will sustain that society.

As I said, Deputy Sherlock can see whether my luck holds on these more consequential amendments. They do derive from the discussions we had in the committee during pre-legislative scrutiny. I would like to hear the Minister’s views on them.