Mr. Philip L'Estrange:

On average it is approximately two and half times more expensive to have an outside placement with the authority. Part of that is down to different pension arrangements. For example, the NTA pay cost does not include the State pension scheme. A VAT rate of 23% is also included in the outsourced placements costs. The model we have is we are trying to move to an 80:20 ratio of NTA employees to business as usual-type roles we outsource. That gives the NTA a level of flexibility if there is a downturn and so on. In relation-----