Mr. Walter Lacey:

I will respond to some of the questions. Senator Black asked if town councils should be restored. I believe the answer is "Yes". I do not suggest bringing back 1,000 extra counsellors. However, they should be restored and their numbers reduced in what remains in the county. The county town has lost its identity. There should be no increase in councillors but there should be a town council. Carlow has only three areas and so the other two areas would work away. Perhaps they could be given a vote in the Seanad election if they come back under a different umbrella. It would be helpful for Senators here.

Senator Cassells is right, from the town council point of view, the engagement with officials in and around the town at social events has almost totally gone. Some engineers who were originally in the town council are still engaging, but it is missing. The old town clerk, town engineer etc. were always available and there.

I actively campaigned for the retention of this body a number of years ago and I am glad that I did because it provides the opportunity for current counsellors and people like us outside to come up and make the case; it would not happen downstairs or across the corridor. Things like the referendums would have flown through without the effort of many of the Senators and I want to compliment them on that.

I have a final comment on the Fórsa representatives. The workers are often forgotten. I publicly compliment the local authority workers whom I have worked with for over 30 years. They have always been most helpful and are very knowledgeable. I still maintain some social engagement with many of them. They need to hear that because they are working under very difficult circumstances at the moment. I cannot offer the Cathaoirleach a vote in the next election, but the kettle is always on.