Mr. Tommy Wynne:

I will take that on behalf of Irish Rail. The Irish Rail model is good. It does help. It sets up hubs at different stations along the routes, at mainline stations mostly.

It absolutely does help because it gives the host - the customer service officer, CSO - on the train somewhere to ring to try to get gardaí to the station. However, to be honest, this is only putting a sticking plaster on the problem. As the Deputy said, antisocial behaviour has got very bad in all elements of society. I have been 30 years on the railways and I have never seen things as bad. The measures they have put in place have undoubtedly helped but the antisocial behaviour is getting worse all of the time. As I said with regard to the CSOs, a lot of young girls and young males have started in the company in the last few years and they are intimidated. They are on the trains where people are using drugs, drinking and carrying out antisocial behaviour the whole time, and they do not know what to do. They ring the gardaí to come to one of these hubs but they have to get to that hub or that station to stop the train. Meanwhile, people are getting more boisterous because the train is stopped and people are asking why the train is not moving.

The hubs are a good idea and these are suggestions that we have made to the company. To be fair to Irish Rail, it does liaise with us to try to come up with ideas to improve things. The only issue is the gardaí. As I said, those hubs are for when gardaí come to the station. Only a couple of weeks ago, I got a call where a girl had trouble on the train and rang the station ahead. The train stopped but had to wait there for nearly an hour for gardaí to come. While the idea of the hubs is great, if we do not have the resources to send somebody, which is always the problem, then it defeats the purpose of having them.

Senator Boylan said earlier that she is in favour of this and it is great to see Sinn Féin in favour, as well as the Tánaiste. However, I have felt for a long time that to have transport police is the answer, whatever form that takes, and Senator Boylan, Mr. Kane and Mr. Murphy made a similar point. We can discuss what form it should take and come to a consensus. I know certain people want limitations on the idea and they do not want certain things done, which is fair enough, but I think that is the answer. Every time the gardaí come, it makes a huge difference and it makes people behave. I know some people have trouble with the Garda but 99% of people want gardaí to arrive. When they do, people cop on and stop behaving badly, and they either get off the train or gardaí arrest them or whatever, but at least it changes what happens. It is the same in the stations. Connolly Station and Heuston Station also have hubs and they are the very same. When the police are there on the ground, it makes a huge difference. Irish Rail has spent a lot more money on security in the stations, which is great, but people still carry on when security are there. However, when gardaí arrive, it is very different.