Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I probably rank as one of the cheapest Deputies to elect. In terms of pension rights, it is probably a good saving for the State. I have been doing a bit of work for a Fine Gael policy lab that we have on positive ageing and I think it is not just an issue for older people. This is actually an issue for people of all ages as to what exactly their arrangement is. I would like to explore a few things. I was just looking at the memo the Government published on this Bill which states: "Under equality legislation, an employer is currently permitted to set a retirement age, but only in circumstances where it can be objectively and reasonably justified ... This means employees over the State Pension age may continue to invoke the protection of the Employment Equality Acts if their employer seeks to compulsorily retire them." Is that statement true? That sounds like a lot of these contracts are in conflict with equality legislation or am I misreading that?

I want to explore what has been done in Australia. Our guests said that removal of the mandatory age would put the onus back on employers to have these difficult conversations. How is that managed, say, if one is a small employer? A lot of small employers have talked about too much being put at their doorstop with a high cost and with uncertainty. How would that be? If one were a small employer and people were coming up to that age, would the employer face a series a hearings around the WRC if they had not done a lot of documentation? I would be very sympathetic to this sort of change but how has Australia done it? I could imagine small employers being on our back, saying we are completely out of touch with the reality of trying to run a small business if we told them there really is an onus on them to create a situation where it is now justifiable for them to ask someone to leave.