Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

His initial response. That was all I had to say to get more in from the Minister of State.

The references to urban compact growth in section 42 and housing growth in section 44 do not cover the point we are trying to make at all. There is an issue with household size and demographic projections, which have to be a key point in housing development strategies. They should be key and the fact they are not explicitly mentioned in this section, and that very important detail is not explicitly mentioned, is a huge flaw. Even if it were, it would still be a major challenge to get the optimum efficient use of the housing stock. We are not necessarily ever going to do that but the point is we should be trying to get towards that.

Deputy Duffy is right. We have some very low occupancy levels. A key issue is now emerging, due to the changes in the stock being built, which is that of a mismatch. This will become more pronounced in years to come, when we will have overcrowding in respect of families in smaller units, and smaller households, homes and apartments. There will be a mismatch between that and smaller households in larger homes. We will always get some of that because there is obviously no obligation on anyone, if he or she is in a larger home, to ever sell, move or rightsize. The key issue in that regard, however, is every week I meet retired people who say that they want to do that. It is not a majority of people but a very significant minority of retired couples and individuals I meet on a weekly basis say they are in a three- or four-bedroom house that is hard to heat, that they do not need all that room, and they want to able to sell and move into a smaller dwelling in their community. They then mention all these new apartments being built, and say that they would love to be able to buy and move into one, and it is a scandal that they cannot buy them because they are only available for rent. We would have more efficient use of the housing stock if that situation were sorted out. If my amendment on apartment tenure had been accepted to give people that choice, that would help. The fact that this will not be explicitly brought out in the housing strategy is adding to the problem. There is a kind of denial or lack of awareness regarding this issue, even though we all know about it as public representatives and experience it in our areas. It has not fed into these strategies or tools to try to deal with this. As I said, we will never get a perfect match. There will always be a mismatch, which is unfortunate, but it is about trying to get as good a match as is feasible, while respecting people's wishes and their individual rights.

The ESRI study was mentioned. A few weeks ago, the Minister of State gave a commitment that he would give the committee the terms of reference for that. He might update us on when we will get those terms of reference.