Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 20 March 2024

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection

Implications of Means Testing: Department of Social Protection

Mr. Niall Egan:

I thank the Deputy. I do not disagree or dispute anything that he has said but a lot of the issues are a consequence of over 20 years of social welfare. In particular, we are in the process of catching up with the changes made between 2008 and 2013 and we have not caught up fully in many of those cases. Over the last six budgets we have made over 30 means-related changes. They have been improvements. The changes do not address all the issues flagged by the Deputy.

As I said, it is showing the Minister’s commitment to making progressive changes. Those last six budgets have each contained measures for some of the schemes the Deputy highlighted. I cannot comment on the cost. The Deputy mentioned €50 million in the context of the Department’s overall budget. As the Deputy is aware, the way we engage as part of the budget process is everything is operating off the estimated level of service for the continuation of what we have for next year. That €50 million additionality comes out of the additionality, so it is actually a much smaller percentage of the larger envelope available in terms of budget context of new money, for want of a better term. However, I take the Deputy's valid point that €50 million out of the total budget is a small percentage. We are back and forth with colleagues across Government, particularly with the Department of public expenditure, in respect of budget discussions.

The Deputy mentioned capital. We have made changes in the capital assessments for some but not all our schemes. We will be looking at capital levels as part of the means review. It is trying to get the balance between prudent savings levels and the targeting of resources. We are also conscious that this will be an increasingly important issue for single pensioners who do not own their home because they will need reserves of savings to fund private rental accommodation during their retirement and, therefore, more savings to pay for that rent. That is coming down the tracks at us and we need to be aware of it.

Regarding qualified adults, the qualified adult rate for people of working age is basically about 66% of the main payment. We know the actual cost of another adult in a household is typically about 1.5 times. When there are two adults, the cost typically multiplies by 1.5 and we are paying about 1.66. Looking at pensioners, the IQA for over 66-year-olds is almost 90% of the primary payment. We are conscious of that with regard to how we look at this and the consequence. I am-----

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