John Paul Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The other thing that I would caution Members about is the notion that the reintroduction of town councils should be limited to towns of a certain size. It will be a case of "Save our town council" all over again. Any place that had one will automatically look to get one back. We know that it took 14 votes to get onto Ballybay Town Commission or Lismore Town Council or whatever. Famously, in my constituency, a man who got elected to the last Bagenalstown or Muine Bheag Town Council told me in the week of the election he was going to get 66 votes and he would get the eighth seat. He got 67 votes and got the eighth seat. Tommy Bambrick ended up being the last chair of Muine Bheag Town Commission. That is not democracy either. I will always disagree with Deputy Howlin and others about the idea that some people get two ballot papers and others get one in elections to local government. That is not a democratic system.