Dr. Norah Campbell:

I do not subscribe to the paradigm of overeating. It is about the overproduction rather than the overconsumption of food. That is the commercial determinant, which is focused much more on the commercial actors and their activities. What is really needed is to use fiscal instruments, such as taxation, and move subsidies to improve health outcomes. It is about this term "health in all policies", and asking what it means and what metrics are being used to measure it. For me, it is to understand that the idea of conflict of interest is not about corruption or bribery. Everyone is influenced by the commercial determinants of health. We are influenced by their framing and the ways in which they create regulatory chill. That is the term that is used. These determinants put health policymakers off much more upstream measures by putting the focus on individual responsibility, empowered choice, walking trails and this kind of thing. This makes policymakers, such as the Deputy, very scared of going upstream and tackling where the structural change actually needs to be made.