Róisín Garvey (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for coming in. Well done to them because until two or three years ago there was no proper retrofit plan in place. As has been said, it was hit and miss. It is very easy now to ask why it is not perfect or why it was not all done yesterday. Considering the plan has only been properly funded for the past two and a half years, it is amazing what has been achieved and rolled out nationwide. I have seen it at first hand and heard it from people first hand.

It is easy to poke holes in things. It is ironic that people who have never asked for retrofit funding before now have a better solution than everybody else for how it should have been done. I acknowledge the hard work that has been done by the Department, the funding that has been provided for the first time ever and the fact that the challenge is being taken seriously.

Sometimes I see that we are getting it right at a national level but issues arise when it comes down to either local level or the individual companies. The funding is not always the full solution. I would love to know if local authorities are given targets for how much social housing stock they should retrofit, based on percentages each year. If we do not give people targets, they may not have a clear aim. In County Clare, a good bit has been done in Shannon, for example, although I do not have the figures. We often hear that some local authorities are brilliant while others are bad at various things. I would love to see a proper target and an expectation for each local authority so that they prioritise the retrofit of social housing stock.

I sometimes think we are missing a piece in regard to people who contact me who have old stone cottages. Two cases I am aware of involve men who are both elderly and both have cancer. Having waited for an awful long time, they have been visited by company representatives who told them they were sorry but they could not do anything for them. I do not think that is acceptable. I do not know how we are going to follow up with those individual companies to ask why they told the men there was nothing they could do for them. If nothing else, they could at least insulate the attic. There is always something these companies can do, for example, external wall insulation. I do not accept that people should be told there is nothing that can be done for them. One house had a BER of G. Such houses are falling through the gaps. Companies should not be allowed to tell people who have been waiting for ten months that they are sorry but they cannot help them.

I know there is a delay because of the level of interest in the scheme. Success breeds delays. The way it works at the moment is that a house gets a BER rating and if it qualifies, the company does the work. Sometimes we hear of people who might be more vulnerable than others but they still have to wait for ages just to get a building energy rating. Would the Department consider doing a lot more BERs to find out where the worst houses are and then decide how to prioritise which is retrofitted first? Does Mr. Deegan know what I mean? If we take it on a first-come first-served basis only, we will not necessarily deal with the coldest houses first. There are G-rated houses in which people with disabilities and long-term ailments or very old people are living. I have had lots of older people come to me. I do not know if we have got this right yet. There is always room for improvement, if the witnesses know what I mean. If those people have to wait for ages while people with fewer energy issues are having retrofits done first, how do we make sure we are getting the most vulnerable first?

Wind energy was raised by Senator Burke, who is no longer present. My brother-in-law is a lecturer in energy engineering. He installed hydro, solar and wind in his own house. The reason there is not funding for micro wind generation is that it is not half as useful as solar. The reason we have focused all our energy on solar is that it works all year around and it does not have to be windy. I have a degree in maths and physics. It is just science. In this country, solar is the best way to get as much energy as possible into domestic houses and buildings. We did not decide for no reason to ignore wind and invest in solar. Lots of very clever people know a lot more than Senator Burke or I do about energy efficiency. That is why solar is promoted.

It would be good to see more education taking place. We have got funding on a national level. We have community climate action officers in every local authority but I do not see them doing outreach or education. I think there is a gap there. People still need to learn how to do these things. It has already been mentioned how confusing certain things are for people. There are simple tricks that people are not aware of yet. This sounds very simplistic but everybody should use the plugs with timers. They are very easy to use. Everybody should be using them because night-time rates are half the price. People can set their washing machine, dishwasher or tumble drier – the big energy guzzlers – to run after midnight. It would be a simple thing to send two of those plugs to every household in Ireland. It is a very low-cost measure and if people used them – they are very easy to understand – they would be much more effective.

I am sorry to say to Mr. Deegan that nobody knows about the energy kits. It is very hit and miss with local authorities. I know about them in County Clare because I heard a councillor in Dublin talking about them being in the libraries there and I found out they are in libraries in Clare. There are five kits in Clare. I have seen the kit and it is not easy to use. People need to learn from other people. Community climate action officers have to do more outreach. I referred to the waiting list, which I think Deputy Moynihan will also speak to, and how the most vulnerable are to be prioritised if we get stuck doing deep retrofits before all the BERs have been done.

What do I say to these two older men who have cancer? They have been told by two companies that they have a BER of G and the companies cannot do anything for them. These are the people we want to help.