Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 25 January 2024

Public Accounts Committee

Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Account of the Receipt of the Revenue of the State collected by the Revenue Commissioners 2022
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 20 - Assessment and Collection of Local Property Tax
Chapter 21 - Revenues Tax Debt Warehousing Scheme
Chapter 22 - Corporation Tax Losses

9:30 am

Mr. Niall Cody:

I will not challenge any other bodies about how they do their job.

We looked at it. This goes back to an audit on the Department of Education which was finalised in, probably, 2014. It was the subject of a chapter in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report of 2015. We analysed it at the time. In our view, the parents were the employer of the home tutor when we analysed the facts and circumstances of the case. The Department agreed, maybe reluctantly, that it would collect the tax through the PAYE system.

One of the things that we are doing as a result of the Karshan judgment is that shortly, I will write to my fellow Accounting Officers, advising them of the Karshan decision and recommending that they review the treatment of workers - I use the term "workers" loosely - in their own Departments and bodies under their aegis. I know, as I pay close attention to the discussion that goes on here, that there are sectors within the broad public sector for which Karshan has implications.

I think any responsible body will look at Karshan and ask if it has implications. I have seen some of the commentary on the Karshan judgment by advisory firms. I know John McKeon talked about the code of practice. One worry I have about the code of practice is that it would become the guidebook for achieving what you probably do not want to achieve. It is a question of how you structure a contract. That is why the court decision was really useful. It said that there may be a written contract but that we have to have regard to the actual facts and circumstances. The written contract is valid to determine the status only if it reflects the reality. There is no doubt that if you set out a code of practice as to how you treat someone as self-employed or employed, that becomes a guide to structuring something in a way that may not reflect the true facts. That is what makes this hard. We cannot issue a guidance. When Anne finalises the draft guidelines, she cannot say that this category by and large comprises employees without having regard to the facts and circumstances. Generally, public bodies do not fall within the publication rules, but every time there is a tax settlement the Comptroller and Auditor General publishes it, so it becomes a matter of record in the accounts. We do this every so often as regards what the rules are. Karshan, in a way, does not change the law but definitely does change the interpretation in certain circumstances.

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