Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I suppose we should all spare a thought for those poor employers who are only dying for their workers to join trade unions but the workers will not. That is in no way, shape or form my experience, and I have fairly extensive experience in the industrial relations arena, as does my father. I did not ring him or otherwise contact him, but I can say that was not his experience either. I am not disputing that someone told Ms McElwee that, but if it is happening, I would suggest it is only happening in a tiny portion, as the statistics provided by ICTU this morning would flatly contradict that assertion. In my experience, as backed up by the statistics, the majority of workers will join a trade union if given the opportunity. Even in a time of full employment, if the atmosphere is hostile or there is a firm belief, be it written down or not, that engaging in trade union activity will lead to someone suffering a penalty, it is understandable that workers will be nervous. The employers who spoke to Ms McElwee will, following the transposition of this directive, have the opportunity to join the Government and trade unions in promoting collective bargaining, and we will all be talking about it then. That might be a good opportunity and a good day for those employers.

I will return to the issue of small businesses and sectoral bargaining. No one in this or any other room wants to put people out of business, but the fact remains that the get-out clause in the National Minimum Wage Act is not being used. Bizarrely, the point was made that the SFA is not represented at this meeting, but it is clearly under IBEC’s umbrella. Perhaps people need to do a little more research before they come to committee meetings. That might be helpful.

Small businesses operate in a different environment than larger ones. They do not have big HR offices. They might be supported by their representative organisations, but they do not necessarily have those kinds of capability. This directive is for all workers, though. What are the views of both groups? I will start with Mr. Reidy. What is the impact on small businesses? No one wants to put people out of work, least of all trade unions, but what is his view on small businesses?