Ms Maeve McElwee:

It is really important that we separate the issue of preventing people from joining a trade union from the whole issue of rights to collective bargaining. People are perfectly entitled to join a trade union. They may join a trade union freely and at will. We actually do not see that. We do not see it in many European countries; it is not just here in Ireland. Density in trade union membership internationally is actually quite low except in some of the Nordic countries. There is absolutely no impediment to anybody joining a trade union and using that collective activity to lobby for more collective bargaining. In discussing the transposition of this directive, it is really important that we recognise that there is absolutely no reason why somebody would not join a trade union if they wish to. I do not doubt that there may be unfortunate circumstances.

As Mr. Reidy said, people who actively engage in trade union business are discriminated against. However, I would point out that there are no, or very few, cases. That goes to the question Deputy O'Reilly asked me, namely, why are there no cases of employers exercising their ability under the national minimum wage Act to say they cannot afford to pay the national minimum wage. It is because, if they do, they cannot continue their business because no supplier or creditor is going to continue to engage with them if they publicly say that. As we have said to this committee on many occasions, that provision is null and void. It is of no assistance. I understand that there are no cases but it is because they cannot take a case without further jeopardising the employment and the business.