Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

It is good to see our guests again. Theirs was about as comprehensive a report as we have got and the ambassador's answers have added to it.

To follow on from an issue Deputy Haughey raised, one of the major geopolitical issues facing the world at the moment is the absolute crisis in Gaza. The latest figure I have seen for the number of dead Palestinians is 24,448, 70% of whom were women and children. I do not know how anyone can stand over those sorts of statistics and talk about defence. I recognise that, as Ms Van Vlierberge said, Belgium, alongside Ireland, Malta and Spain, signed a letter urging the European Council to seek a ceasefire, which is a fair place to be. She mentioned the need to maintain international humanitarian law, and while it is hard to see how we will get out of this crisis, we need to get to the point of a negotiated peace because we cannot go back to what existed previously, and I have fears about what this Israeli regime can do.

Whether it is Belgium in its position with the Council Presidency or as a country alongside like-minded states, there has to be action. We have to look at matters related to the EU-Israel Association Agreement and those humanitarian clauses, and certain states are going to have to be brave in recognising the state of Palestine. It is as much about Israel being held to account. I welcome what the South Africans have done and I would like to see other countries support them in that regard, whether we are talking about the ICC or the ICJ. Some of this is also about a message going to the US such that it cannot give its unbridled support - as much as its language may have changed, it is unbridled support - and major mistakes were made at a European Commission level, by Ursula von der Leyen and others, although that goes without saying.

I accept Ms Van Vlierberge cannot get into detailed answers about what can happen, but there is an onus on Belgium, Ireland and others to do at least something to hold Israel to account, with a message going even to the Americans. In Yemen, there is now the possibility of even further escalation and I am not sure where this will stop. Obviously, for the Palestinian people, it is just day-to-day tragedy and death. We can call it what we want and some of us will use the term "genocide" while others will call it "ethnic cleansing", but I think we would all agree it is an absolute slaughter.

It is hard to talk about accession without the context of the rule of law. There has been enough discussion of the antics of Viktor Orbán and others. How does Ms Van Vlierberge envisage this EU ethics body and the defence of democracy package? What exactly will it look like? The European Union needs a means of dealing with those who are engaging in behaviour that is not conducive to democracy and people's rights. It also creates a fear and difficulty for other countries wishing to come in, so it is something we have to get right. Deputy Howlin dealt at length with the European pact on migration and asylum. We need some sort of sensible solution. As much as we need to tackle the issues as they exist in parts of the developing world and so on, whether that is climate change or the wars and conflicts we are talking about, we need a system in play. At times, however, I do not think we even have a system in play for people seeking asylum who, if there were a better roadmap for them, might apply for work permits, and in many European countries, including our own, we need them. It is very hard to get it all right, not least in the middle of multiple crises, but throughout Europe, including in Ireland, we have to do better, and everybody will be better off on that basis.

We may differ on the following matter. When Ms Van Vlierberge talked about discussions regarding the technological and industrial military base and the European defence industry, she mentioned a greater level of integration in respect of defence and security. Where does she foresee that moving to? Obviously, Ireland has a certain position on neutrality and alignment and that has served us well, but I would be interested in hearing the ambassador's views on the issue.