Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome Mr. Rainey who I know from Carlow County Council. I know Ms Ennis who worked in the HSE in Kilkenny and Carlow for years, and Mr. Bernard O’Regan. Therefore, I have to be very nice today.

I was just thinking, when we spoke about the local area and networking and aims to improve services, we were very lucky on Monday when we had the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, in Carlow to open what is the dementia café called The Cabin Café. It really is a very supportive café for families and carers and this is part of all the networking mentioned through the HSE and local authorities which aims to make sure everybody is working together. It was a really successful morning and the Minister, Deputy Butler, did a great job. That is what we need to do. We need to have more things happening like this. I can only say that Carlow Older Persons Forum is probably one of the best in the country. It was good to see.

The witnesses spoke about local area co-ordination models, and signposting and things like that. I am not aware if there is much of that in Carlow, so Mr. O'Regan may come back to me on that. We all have to be practical here. There are huge challenges within the HSE and section 39 organisations. I am aware there are issues with staff retention, funding and services. There is no question about it. I am someone who is fighting for services every day and trying to get work done and I spoke before to Mr. O'Regan about one family I know so well. They are getting older and they have a son who needs 24-hour care. They did it for years but just could not do it any more. I had been working with the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, and a very good provider of a service in Carlow. We got the funding and then the bed, but then we could not get the staff. There was no staff. The son needed to go into the service. The mother and father were distraught and I have had a few cases of this now. What can we do in that line to try to help a family which are so tormented but who have always been there? They did not want to do this but they had no other choice. That is a huge issue. Many people are getting older and we see it ourselves. It is great that people are living longer but that is bringing huge challenges to the system. It is bringing huge challenges whether is through the HSE, services, or even local authorities. We have a lot of challenges now. Our emails trying to get a bit of information are not being answered by the HSE at the moment but that is okay. However, there are challenges within the HSE. Within my own area of Carlow we really need to get more funding. We need to have a lot more services for children with disabilities. We were promised a building for Holy Angels which provides an absolutely excellent service to young children. I know Mr. Rainey is aware of this, as is Ms Ennis. It was to be built on Kelvin Grove and is in the capital plan but I cannot get a date and I do not know when it will start. The building the centre is in at the moment is not fit for purpose.

There are huge challenges within the HSE. However, I am aware this is about housing today so now I will come to Mr. O'Regan. At the beginning of the meeting, Ms Farrelly spoke about the 2,472 allocations nationally. Does the CCMA have the breakdown for Carlow-Kilkenny and if not, could I have it? I have had a few cases recently of children with disabilities whose mother and father may have their own private home and who apply to Carlow County Council for a grant. They cannot access a children's occupational therapist. Carlow County Council does not have one. Does any of the 30 local authorities have one?

We have occupational therapies - there is no question about that - but it is a matter of actually getting a child occupational therapy. We are working with children here. We are talking about young children with disabilities who are looking for grants. I know you can apply for a sensory room. That is done through the local authority. That is grand in the case of a local authority house. If you go through the local authority, it comes out to you. If, however, you own your own home, say, and have a child with a disability, you need to get a child occupational therapist. All local authorities across the country should have a child occupational therapist - that is just common sense - but my understanding is that that is not the case. Across all sectors, we need that communication. It is great, as Pauline said, that everybody is working together, but I see this daily. I can honestly say, having worked with the local authority, the HSE and all the different Departments, that they are very good. You might have to scald them, as Michael would know, and you might have to ring them a good few times, but they do all work together. Could that be looked at? I feel that would do really well.

Mr. Rainey spoke about the grants, and they are really good. I really welcome them. He said a review was ongoing. There needs to be a review ongoing. I will give the witnesses two cases. I could give them a hundred but I will go with just two. I am sure all of them are aware that this is through all local authorities. For a local authority, for your grant, whether it is an older people grant, a housing adaptation, a bathroom or whatever else, to apply for, say, an older people grant, you have to be 66. There is no leniency there. If you go for windows and doors and are six months off 66, you might have a really bad ailment, but there is no give-and-take there whatsoever. Only at 66 can you apply. Leniency needs to be looked at there. Maybe that is part of the review. I am sure that will be looked at.

I am sure the witnesses are all aware that we have all seen huge challenges in the system since the Covid pandemic. Whether it is a bathroom adaptation grant, a bedroom or a bathroom built on, the cost of materials has absolutely soared. What I find when people come to me is that they just cannot afford to pay the extra money now to get the works done. They just do not have it. The grants themselves have not changed, the maximum being €30,000. That is what you get. In Carlow anyway it is €30,000 for a bathroom adaptation grant or a bedroom. Then the bathroom adaptation grant could be different depending on the size, but there is no way you will be able to pay it. The issue is whether there will be extra funding through the work being done with the HSE and the Department. The grants now available to people applying for them have nearly doubled. They will have to go up at least €10,000 anyway. It is just unreal. That is another thing. These are simple things. A lot of the questions I was going to ask have been asked. These are questions that I believe really need to be answered.

This is my last question because Erin and I have a PP meeting as well. If a family with a child or an elderly person with a disability is on the housing list, I ask the witnesses to define for me how they move up the list. Normally, they are told, "We will look at that under medical grounds, but there is a waiting list." How do they define that? How do they themselves decide, as people who represent the local authorities and work through the HSE?

I had a woman in yesterday. God, she was very upset. She is from a rural part of Carlow, and her son will have a housing interview next week. The local authority rang to say he will have the interview. The chap is being assessed. We are trying to get him into services. How could I say to her, "I do not know, when he goes on that housing list, if I can get him an apartment where he can be near his services"? I know there is no housing there - I understand that, and we have to work on that - but we see challenges daily. They are challenges I see, as would other Members of the House. How do we overcome them? We need to start on the ground and we need to start fixing things on the ground a little better, working with all the other areas.

Again, I thank all the witnesses. I was not too hard on Mr. Rainey because I know I have to ring him tomorrow.