Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank Bernard for his opening statement. I thought there would be more kick in it. He is being politically correct, to an extent. I know where he is coming from. Many years ago I sat on the Travellers consultative committee on Cork County Council. A very large number of Travellers sat on the committee, were very vocal and went on strike one time in protest. It shows powers. I see frustration from Traveller representatives. We have spoken on housing and the caravan loan scheme, which I think is totally inadequate. An issue is the lack of one-to-one engagement with people on sites, whether on the side of the road or living in a housing estate. I am lucky. Deputy Stanton is in the same town as me and we have a lot of settled Travellers in Midleton living in houses and also in caravans and they are exemplary, absolutely amazing. One of the lads cuts my hair. He does not do great at it, but, seriously, people do not realise the value the Traveller community brings to communities and to society.

I discussed before the Traveller loan scheme and how expensive it is to get a mobile home. I was asking if, thinking outside the box, people would be interested in getting the likes of pods. I have seen pods that are massive two-bedroom domes, fully serviced and probably with a longer lifespan than a caravan or mobile home. Are Travellers open to something different? I was reading correspondence from Cork City Council on another site in the city. I have no words for the red tape, Part 8 planning and complications involved when trying to get something done.

I watched that programme last Monday night. Bernard's statement mentioned the number of suicides in Traveller families.

It is absolutely frightening. It is horrible. I have said it. I am a former spokesperson on mental health. I lost two of my own brothers to suicide. I know what it is like. To put people, and a lot of them are very young, in that position because of the lack of a basic right is a shame on any government and on any policy. I get very frustrated with this and the Chair would know this. There is so much potential and so much that can be done for the Travelling community but we seem to be blocked at every angle. I am very frank as the Chair will tell you. I can walk into a halting site in one area but I cannot walk into one in another area, you know this type of way that one finds resistance as well. How do we break down those barriers and basically speak in plain English? None of the fancy stuff any more and say, "Right, we will give you a list. This is what we think. What do you think of it?" and open up the engagement.

I am very interested in long-term accommodation. Buying a second-hand mobile home for an extortionate cost, and the rules are shocking, is jobs for the boys, in my opinion. One can only buy off one person. There is no bartering and no competition so obviously there is no chance the cost will come down and no guarantee the quality will be that good. Would the Traveller community be open to thinking outside the box and looking at a more sustained model, such as modular homes, versus the caravan? I feel they are better quality and are longer-term accommodation. I am trying to get my head around what we can do quickly and properly and that suits the families. I feel like it is a talking shop here and we are not getting any positive results. When we try to do something we are being blocked whether it is red tape or whatever else. Would the Traveller community be willing to talk or look outside the box when it comes to alternative accommodation?

The caravan loan scheme is shockingly poor value for money. Do the witnesses agree with that?