Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

We are all concerned about liabilities incurred now and in the future. The Minister of State is equally and rightly concerned about it. We do not know the day or the hour when an emergency could arise and all of a sudden we would have a choice to make, either to stand together or stand apart. If we stand apart, we contribute to the dissolution of a powerful financial and economic group. Other countries, likewise, have the same responsibilities but I would like to think that other countries have the same reservations and common goal that we have because, like us, they contribute to the sum total of what is the European Union in all its trappings and with all its warts, bureaucracy being one. We all fear bureaucracy. We can never tell when something will pop out of a page to say: "By the way, you agreed to this." We have agreed to this as well, but we correctly have concerns. The Minister of State has concerns as well, rightly so. Members have to go through the procedure of assessing the risks in all situations nationally and in regard to Europe. It is appropriate that we are alert to those matters.

I suggest that occasionally we should invite a Commissioner along to a committee meeting or other forum. In the days of old, I remember being in a position to invite a Commissioner who conceded at the time to only attend the meeting in secret and that there would be no publication of the issue discussed. Needless to say, the committee rejected that proposal on the basis that it was an extension of bureaucracy, of a failure by the Commissioner to engage with the member state, or the relevant committee of the member state's Parliament, in order to discuss issues of common concern. What concerns any of us concerns all of us. We stand together or we stand apart but there are consequences in each case. We know on which side we are supposed to stand. I am sure our European colleagues are fully familiar with the necessity to ensure that issues of concern to us are also of concern to them and that, together, we strive on an ongoing basis to make sure that Europe, as envisaged, continues into the future.

Threats, which are likely to arise in the future, must have a measured and united response that takes into account the internal affairs of the member states, but is mindful of the fact that some member states may decide to depart from the general discussion and opt out. Brexit is a classic example. We are not all bound by those decisions either. When countries separate from Europe it makes Europe and the member state weaker. There are implications and complications for us all.