Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

This is a follow-on from last week's meeting when representatives from the Mental Health Commission, HIQA and the Ombudsman for Children's Office appeared before the committee and many of these issues were raised. There was much discussion around the Nowhere to Turn report from the Ombudsman for Children's Office, which the witnesses already referenced.

They spoke about families at crisis point leaving their children in hospital longer than they need to be and even referring them to the services of Tusla voluntarily or leaving them in respite centres. Surely, the manager of the CDNT knows long before we get to that point that the family and child are at crisis point. It should never get to that point that due to a lack of services, the child ends up being basically abandoned by the family. It is the last thing the family wants to do. I am glad to hear that arguing over who funds which part is a thing of the past because it should never be about that. It is all State money anyway. What should be done is what is best for the child. One of the things that was referenced last week was that there were discussions on the need for statutory obligation for services to operate. Surely, we do not need that. Services should be co-operating for the benefit of the child without being told that is what they need to do. That is what should be happening. Unfortunately, I do not think it is because there are still children in these situations. I hear from families that children are falling between cracks due to primary care and CDNTs arguing over where they should be.

Deputy Feighan raised the issue of autistic children and CAMHS teams refusing to treat them. I refer to something Ms Murphy said about clarity and the appropriate response pathway for children and young children presenting with suicidal ideation and who are self-harming but do not meet the threshold for CAMHS. If they do not meet the threshold for CAMHS, then who does? That is ridiculous. A child who is considering suicide or who is self-harming surely does meet the threshold for CAMHS. I would like clarification on that.

The Mental Health Commission does not have remit over CAMHS. Is that something that should be changed? It has pointed out that the legislation is there to do that. That would be welcome. I feel that because of a lack of services for children and by not providing appropriate supports, we are in breach of two conventions, namely, the Convention on the Rights of the Child and the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. They need to be addressed.

I have a question on the maximum number of children in residential. What is the maximum number? One report that HIQA presented concerned 12 young people were in a centre together. There were huge problems and there was a reliance on medication as a form of restraint. Then, when the number was halved, that did away with the need for medication and, in fact, it was much easier to manage.

We are hearing there are difficulties between the Departments of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform over the funding of the disability action plan 2024 to 2026. Is that true? If an action plan for disability is published, it would be very disappointing to find it will not be funded. It gives false hope and creates considerable concern about whether it will be implemented.