John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Twenty-five years ago, an issue was raised at the Committee of Public Accounts. It was all about a technology system that would report on everything to do with the management of the health boards, the HSE or whatever it was. There must be systems available in the commercial world that can manage big business operations, stocks, staff, you name it. Yet, the officials do not know how many bandages are used in a hospital. They do not really know what is going on in the hospitals except through some manual reporting that goes on. They do not seem to have gotten deep enough into any aspect of the HSE to say where the problem is and what they would recommend doing to change it. That is what shocks me about the conversation we have had. It is all a matter of, "I think", "I do not know", "I did not get that number", "I can get that number for you" and "It is big and complex". It is not complex, actually. There are companies as big as the HSE. These are profitable companies that operate and they know where everything is. If they are not doing it right, they will not be profitable and they will not be in business. That is essentially what is wrong with the HSE.

It falls then to Mr. Dormer and his committee to kick a bit of shape into the HSE and the Department of Health and that does not seem to be happening either. There are therefore blockages somewhere along the way. Those may be political, with the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, or with Mr. Moloney and Mr. Watt. They are in this together, the whole lot of them, for the country. Instead of saying, "the Government makes that decision", "we make that decision" or "I do not talk to him, but we talk to this guy over here", is it not about time that someone told them all to sit down and work out the differences between them to provide a see-through, transparent and accountable budget? Is that too much to ask in dealing with the HSE?