Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú) | Oireachtas source

I understand that. All I am saying is that when we ask these questions we get fairly nebulous answers, with all due respect, similar to that answer. It astounds me that when we go into a hospital at this stage that most of the documents are in hard copy and they are shifted around the whole system. We do not have a proper ICT system. During Covid we had a major crisis because people did not have patient numbers and therefore different GP lists and hospital lists were being used. There is a major ICT productivity mess. There is a massive dependency on agency staff, which again is a phenomenal cost to the system. There are incredibly high salaries for certain people within the HSE. Some people are earning nearly €1 million. All of these are concrete identifiable productivity elements. All I am asking is whether there is any evidence from the HSE or from the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform that they are ever going to be tackled in terms of making sure that we get better value for the investment that we make and that we will get to treat more patients in the long run?