Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú) | Oireachtas source

Do we know how many layers of management exist per head of population in each country in Europe and where Ireland stands on that? Many people feel that the HSE is phenomenally bureaucratic. It is opaque in terms of its management. It is virtually impossible to have a decision made sometimes at certain levels of the HSE. That is a key issue that I do not believe is being analysed sufficiently within the Department of Health or within Mr. Moloney's Department. I feel that funding should be empirical. We decide as a State how to fund a system on the basis of exactly how much we need to deliver fair systems to every citizen. I do not get a sense at all that the Department's decision in respect of capping funding at a certain level for the HSE is empirically based in terms of need or at least in terms of productivity. That does not seem to be there.

For example, if I was to fund the HSE or decide on a particular budget, I would run modelling to understand how many people will be treated and what kind of levels of investment are needed. Bernard Gloster says €2.4 billion will be needed in additional funding while the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council, IFAC, says €1.5 billion is needed in additional funding. If the Government does not provide that, is modelling done to analyse what effect the shortfall will have on capacity? Has the Department done that?