Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Tuesday, 7 November 2023

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach

Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I appreciate that. I found it interesting that the Green Party Deputy was talking about Sinn Féin blowing the budget as he is discussing a measure that would not exist if it were not for Sinn Féin. Let us make that clear. You always know you touched a nerve when they have to resort to that.

I genuinely feel this is cruel. I appeal to the Minister to consider this between now and Report Stage. It is affordable to not exclude those others. This is just not fair. We all know people who are excluded from this. What if a family has a €2,000 increase in their mortgage? Some of these people are on low incomes and they budgeted their family income. This is a shock. I know I am repeating myself but I genuinely feel strongly about 130,000 people being locked out.

We will talk about targeting other things. There is no targeting for the landlords. The landlords are again getting more than the mortgage holders. The Government is spending more on the landlords than the mortgage holders under this proposal. It is not that the tax relief will only be given to the landlords if they have mortgage between specific amounts. All of them will get it as long as they continue to rent.

There are people who are really suffering. I say it is cruel because they thought after the tenth letter landing that there was some light at the end of the tunnel. That was then snatched from them and they were told they were excluded. There is targeting. I do not agree completely with the Minister’s proposal but it is very similar to my own. The target in my proposal is 30%. Not all of the pain will be eased. Mine is 30% and the Minister’s is 20%. The other targeting is the maximum a family can get is €1,500 under my proposal and €1,250 under the Minister’s. That is targeting. To target people just because their loan is less than €80,000 regardless of their circumstances and the fact they might not have money to put on the table or oil in tank is just cruel. It makes no logical sense and it is cruel.

This is a one-off measure easing the shock. I strongly urge the Minister to consider this again.

Having 130,000 people locked out of this is just wrong. As I said, the Government did the right thing in terms of moving on mortgage interest relief. It was very late in the day, but at least it is finally here. Excluding nearly half of the people from it is ridiculous. It is just not right. I feel strongly about this. There are letters on my computer from real people and families with real stories talking about the real pressures they are under in terms of how much their mortgage interest rates have gone up. One woman said she is €3,700 outside of the relief. She spoke about the hope the Minister gave her and how that was daft. She does not know where to turn. She has gone to the bank. I will not give all of her details. There are real families out there.

All of us in this room who have mortgages could benefit from this. If Deputy Durkan had a mortgage of €120,000 and his interest rate went up by €700, he would still get relief. However, somebody else will not benefit, simply because their mortgage is for €80,000. They may have lost their job or be struggling. They may have an injury or have fallen on hard times. They may be struggling to put their kids through college, but they will get nothing because of the arbitrary line which means nothing because it does not take into account the income of the family. Rather, it is about the loan in relation to the asset. It does not make sense.

I am very passionate about this issue. The Government has got it wrong regarding the cut-off point. I do not know whether that came from officials or the Minister, but it should be reconsidered as a one-off measure. Every Tom, Dick and Harry can get the energy credit. The owners of holiday homes and people with multiple properties lying empty were able to get the energy credit. When it comes to real impacts and shocks for families, we are excluding 130,000 people. I do not understand where the Minister is coming from.

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