Mr. Darragh O'Connor:

In terms of the different models, Ireland has historically had a marketised system. The State would have put some money in but had no control over where that money went. The State has two key objectives. One is high quality, and we have heard how important that is. That usually means having good, professional staff who are properly and well trained, and remuneration is a part of that. The other objective is reducing fees for parents and allowing for labour market participation and all those good things. Historically, the State has put money in but has no control over that money once it is paid to the provider. That is to make no comment on the provider. The money could have been used to reduce fees or improve pay but the State has no control over that. Core funding is about giving the State some levers to be able to have confidence that if it puts money in, it will deliver on these policy objectives. Without those levers, there is an enormous obstacle to increasing funding. A state is not going to spend an extra €1 billion in early years care unless it knows it will get bang for its buck.

There has been so much change that the sector is a bit of a rollercoaster in general. Core funding has only been in for one year and one month. It still has to settle and we will see where it goes. That is effectively public management. There are levers here. There are pay talks and the fee freeze that enabled the subsidies to catch.

The French system is more of a public system, which is another step again. Ireland is an outlier in the European Union in having no public provision. It is strange and odd. The question is what is a public system in the Irish context. That is the question. You have all this infrastructure in the private and community operators. There are buildings and staff, and people have set up businesses and all the rest of it. What would a public system look like? SIPTU previously advocated for a situation similar to that for primary schools whereby the State would take over the payment of wages.

That would take away 70% of the costs of providers for delivery. It would be gone because it is the wage bill. It would also give us the opportunity to reduce fees significantly. That is one vision of a public system. It needs to be fleshed out and I am sure everyone around this table will have lots of opinions about it. There is a commitment in the core funding report to examine what a public system might look like in an Irish context. It has been signed off by the Government so it would certainly be an interesting debate to have.