Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. Some of the issues I wish to raise have been covered. Three main issues, namely, penalty points, speed limits and the intoxication test, are being addressed . There is no argument with regard to the intoxication test. The committee heard from An Garda on this. It showed us the tests and explained that the test for drugs is a more expensive and elaborate test and will be used less regularly than the alcohol test. We understand that. It is appropriate for that to be part of the legislation.

As regards speed limits, I take the point that many of the speed limits, particularly the 80 km/h limit on regional, smaller or country roads, are totally inappropriate. One could not drive at the speed limit even if one wanted to do so. Most people know that. An issue of which we must be careful is that if we come up with laws people think are ridiculous, they will not abide by them. The first thing one must ensure is that the law is appropriate. All members are contacted by their constituents. I was contacted by a retired garda recently and had a long discussion with him on this issue. He made the point that if there is a low speed limit on the relatively straight first 5 km of a 20 km road between two towns, people will ask what the hell is going, wonder why they are driving like they are on a tractor and will not abide by the limit. If another section of the road has a bridge and a number of bends, it would be appropriate to have a lower speed limit there. The real question is whether local authorities, in conjunction with An Garda Síochána - they usually consult with it in respect of road speed limits - will have the scope to adjust speed limits appropriately. For example, will the speed limit for a 20 km stretch of road be fixed at 60 km/h even though a limit of 80 km/h would be more appropriate for one third or two thirds of it?

The Minister of State referred to the road between Mullingar and Longford and the upgrade of roads such as that. The speed limit on that road is currently 100 km/h. Will the limit go down to 80 km/h everywhere on that road under the proposed legislation? There is much of it where 100 km/h is fine. We need to understand there are many heavy goods vehicles, vans delivering to shops and all those issues. Those drivers are under time pressure to get their job done and if we bring in legislation they believe is ridiculous, we will have difficulty in making sure people adhere to the legislation.

That brings me to the issue of penalty points, which the Minister of State also addressed. I am not sure it is appropriate for us to say a person breaking the law on a Tuesday is somehow less a breaker of the law than if they do it on a Saturday or Sunday. The law and penalties should apply across the board.

More than anything, the issue here is detection and enforcement. Roads policing units throughout the State have been depleted for many years. That is evident. The retired garda with whom I had a long conversation told me that, in many cases, gardaí were taken off the roads and GoSafe vans were put in. His point was that GoSafe vans watch only one thing, namely, speeding, whereas gardaí in patrol cars watch everything that goes on, including people who may not be speeding but may be acting suspiciously or whatever. I have done the calculations. Using gardaí instead of GoSafe vans is far better value for money and they do more things. GoSafe vans have a role to play in the context of where we are now because we do not have enough gardaí to do the job but they are not the answer. The answer is ensuring we have enough gardaí to do the job. We should be considering how to have fewer GoSafe vans but more gardaí in place to fulfil the role.

I have am issue to raise with regard to the waiving of pre-legislative scrutiny. Pre-legislative scrutiny is important. The Minister for Justice came to the justice committee on several occasions, seeking for pre-legislative scrutiny to be waived. Obviously, she did so with good reasons from her perspective or that of her departmental officials. Pre-legislative scrutiny was introduced because it provides the committee with an opportunity to tease out the issues and bring in people with a different view.

Perhaps we will come to the same conclusion at the end but perhaps we will not. Perhaps there are consequences we have not thought of that we need to weigh up. It is appropriate to have pre-legislative scrutiny of all legislation unless it is an emergency. I understand that we can say this is an emergency in one sense, given the number of people being killed on our roads.

The measure regarding penalty points in the Minister of State's proposal probably would not be on my Christmas list even if we do not have pre-legislative scrutiny. The speed limit proposal will certainly not be on my list because the Minister of State will be asking every local authority in the country what it is going to do and it will probably take a year or two before local authorities have that done. They have signs up all over the country with regard to the reduction in speed limits. I doubt if An Garda Síochána will be up to speed and have all the kits for Christmas when it comes to the intoxication test for drugs, even if this legislation goes through by then. I do not see the reason for haste in the context of all of that.

We need to be careful when it comes to waiving pre-legislative scrutiny when it comes to these matters. We should invite An Garda Síochána to appear before us to discuss this legislation along with the road safety lobby and insurance companies. There is a range of groups that will have a view on it, including perhaps views that are counter to those held by the Minister of State and the committee. It is appropriate that we would do that. I would like to hear the Minister of State's comments on that.