Dr. Martha O'Hagan-Luff:

Under GDP, it counts. We can say we have got GDP growth because we have more catastrophic weather events. That is what is being measured.

Now I will answer the question that the Deputy asked me, which is on green bonds. The Government has issued green bonds. The Irish Government was the fourth government worldwide to issue a green bond, which is great. However, it is a bond that is sold to institutional investors, the likes of pension funds etc. It could continue to borrow from capital markets, and there is a large demand and a growing green bond market. There is a reason I suggested that it borrow from the public instead. The difference between the green bonds that are currently issued and a citizens' green bond would be the denomination. For most bonds, there is a minimum denomination size of €50,000 to €100,000. We could have a citizens' green bond where it is potentially a €100 denomination. The reason is that while it is a source of funding for the Government, we also need to change hearts and minds. People are panicked about biodiversity loss and climate change. They feel a sense of helplessness. A lot of people do not even know what our native trees are, if one wants to plant a tree in one's garden. My kids, for example, could not have told me a few years ago what our native trees are. We all feel helpless. This is one thing where, if you move your savings from a post office savings bond - or we had the special savings incentive account, SSIA, many years ago - you feel as though you are at least funding nature restoration and are helping. There are also education and public awareness pieces. The Government could then talk about what it is being used for, whether it is nature-based solutions to flooding relief in Cork, rewetting bogs or electrifying bus systems. People then feel that they are engaged, are less helpless and are informed and hopefully, that would then build public support for actions-----