Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their presentations. I will make an unapologetic Dublin-centric presentation.

I would like the two garda representatives to respond on the overall numbers of resignations from An Garda Síochána. The figures I have show that there were 26 resignations in 2013, 27 in 2014, and the numbers were similar until 2017 when there were 41. In 2018, the number jumped to 77; in 2019, there were 72; in 2020, there were 70; in 2021, there were 94; and now we are in a situation where the witnesses suggest there have been 116 - my figure was 114 - so far this year. We are at crisis levels. I understand that not only is the number of people applying to An Garda Síochána not as high as we would like but the standard of applications is not as high as we would like. The witnesses made the practical suggestion of an independent pay review body for An Garda Síochána. Who should be tasked with driving and delivering that and should a Dublin allowance be part of the conversation? For those working and living in Dublin, the dynamics of city are different and housing is much more expensive. Is there a need to examine the London model and perhaps expand on it?

The witnesses spoke about community policing. I reinforce what Deputy Smyth said in that in my experience community policing in the most important arm of An Garda Síochána. It builds relationships and understanding, it prevents crime and, in my constituency, it seems to the be section under the most pressure. It is getting the biggest squeeze and is certainly not being expanded.

I agree with Deputy Costello about the other two presentations on social issues in Dublin. Alcohol was not mentioned. Are we to believe that the only drug taking in Dublin is done on the street? I am quite sure people are taking cocaine in restaurants, pubs and nightclubs and they are getting intoxicated with alcohol in those various hostelries or wherever. The cost to the Exchequer of alcohol consumption is approximately €3.8 billion per year.

On the RAI's suggestion of zero tolerance, we had that discussion for approximately 25 years. It is an old suggestion. I assume the difference between a drug taker in a restaurant and a drug taker on the street is that one is visibly poorer than the other and, therefore, less attractive to the eye than the other and one has less money to spend than the other and that is why we focus on the poorer person.

I also take issue with the association's opposition to the medically supervised injection facility. Everywhere in the world that has had an injecting facility it has been shown that drug litter goes down, street injection goes down, the visibility of drug taking goes down, which might not be of interest to the representatives of the restaurants association, but they say they are compassionate, and HIV infections and hepatitis C infection and overdoses go down. I would expect those who advocate for a safer place in which to do business would be the first to advocate for an injecting facility, which has been legislated for and is coming down the tracks.

I also agree with what Deputy Costello said about social housing. These are old arguments that do not stand up to any scrutiny. If witnesses are going to peddle old arguments at an Oireachtas committee, we will not get anywhere. The answer to these problems is not purely in policing; it is also in social cohesion, social justice, education, empowerment and so forth. The presentation about what young people do from flat complexes is an old stereotype at which people would correctly take offence.

That is my presentation. I am quite happy for people to disagree with me. My main points are about the nature of drug taking in the city centre, why we feel different responses to different types are drug taking are needed, what we can do about the number of resignations from An Garda Síochána and who should oversee an independent pay review body as it would deal with a lot of the issues we see in An Garda Síochána. The gardaí I talk to who work in my community feel undermanned, under-resourced and under-appreciated and say they would not join the force now. That is the most worrying thing. People who have done the job for 15 or 20 years would not join now. That is worrying for the future of policing.