Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Stanton spoke first there, agreeing with the need for a humanitarian pause. The term "humanitarian pause" is a standard term in conflict and has meaning within the international framework governing conflict and so forth to allow aid in the first instance.

The conversation with the Iranian foreign minister took about 50 minutes. There was no resiling from Iran's position in terms of the atrocity that happened. I think it is fair to say that it saw that very much as part of the "resistance". His position was then to juxtapose that with the thousands killed in Palestine over the decades. That is an important point to make as to where they are coming from. They essentially support what is happening. They have said this publicly. Iran is a significant regional player here. The Minister was also very clear about what would happen if there was not a pullback on the Israeli side. He said he was not advocating this and did not have influence over the main actors but has met them. He has travelled to the region and would have met with Hezbollah and Hamas and his takeaway is that we are hours away from a significant extension of the conflict. This was his presentation of the issues to me. That could mean a number of things. We have to stand back and interpret that, take it back and discuss it with our own colleagues in Europe and so on. As to whether that will happen or not is a different question, which Deputy Berry asked. Nonetheless, that is what was said, in essence. We discussed a whole range of issues. There is no sense of condemnation of the Hamas atrocity at all. Rather, the emphasis was on communicating to me that he felt, from his discussions with all the regional actors, that this could strengthen or broaden out into the regions.

Our own sense is that this has not happened yet. We do not have a sense from the various people we are talking to in Lebanon that there has been a significant ratcheting up. There has been a certain amount of exchange of fire but there would appear to be a desire, on both sides, for restraint but we will see. There are no guarantees here, and a lot will unfold in the coming days. We have to work very hard on this. I have said to the Iranian foreign minister that there is an obligation on all those who have influence, or who may have influence, to do everything they possibly can to prevent regional spread of this conflict.

In terms of Ukraine, when I talk about the importance to our State, I am referring to the importance to our values. I am also referring to its importance in the context of the UN charter in terms sovereignty and territorial integrity and its importance to Europe and to members of the European Union. We have concerns about what is going on all over the world, in terms of the various coups d'etatin the Sahel region in Africa, the involvement of the Wagner Group in that region in providing security to leaders who came to power through coups d'etatand so on. There is a broader picture which is very worrying, in terms of global disruption and the geopolitical situation.

The question was asked, where now for the consultative forum? I want to pay tribute to Professor Louise Richardson, but I will deal with the broader issues later. I will reflect on the report. There are issues that arose from the forum that I will take to Government and there will be a debate in the Dáil shortly.

Deputy Gannon asked about the humanitarian pause. I have explained what it is and would contend that it is a standard term. To be honest, there is a connection here to Deputy Berry's question. A ceasefire has completely different connotations in the context of Israel's right to pursue Hamas in some shape or form, but there is also the fact that Hamas is still firing rockets into Israel. Would it declare a ceasefire? I do not know, but my guess is that it would not. There has been an international call for action, which might have gone unnoticed by members of this committee, by Hamas and others. There has been a call for action internationally.

The International Criminal Court, ICC, has jurisdiction in determining breaches of international law. Obviously, it is early days yet but I am sure the ICC will be focusing in on this as well. On a related matter, Ireland has never been slow to use international fora to hold any country to account, including Israel. We made a very lengthy legal submission to the International Court of Justice, ICJ, in respect of the occupation. A process was begun at the UN General Assembly in respect of a reasoned opinion and Ireland's presentation is robust, strong and intellectually powerful. We are robust in our presentation and there is a consistency in terms of how we approach issues in international fora.

The perspective of Deputy Lawless is very interesting. He makes some valid points about how the debate is presented domestically. That is why I endeavoured to be open with the committee earlier. I know that different people are coming to this from different perspectives but the tragedy is that young people die, as the Chairman has said, all of the time in conflict situations and in war. Our thoughts are with the children and young people of Gaza. The situation in Gaza prior to this was not satisfactory at all. That said, in more recent times, paradoxically, many more Gazans were working in Israel than had previously been the case. It is a fact that many more were working in Israel and the same was true of people in the West Bank. However, that does not in any way justify the framework that was governing both the West Bank and Gaza prior to this.

The Deputy is right about the embassy. I worry about the fact that people can get so close to an embassy and can daub it with paint. The people who work in an embassy are diplomats of a state. We have diplomats all over the world. Our first obligation to our diplomats is to protect them because many of them are in difficult locations. Diplomacy is the last bastion in terms of maintaining some degree of civility between states. Having an embassy in a country does not mean one endorses that country's positions. We have to be extremely careful that we protect embassies in this country. Our security services and our gardaí have to be very alert to that because it is a fundamental tenet of diplomatic relations. We can protest respectfully but protests that have an intimidatory dimension to them should be condemned. Ambassadors are representatives of states. They will accept protests and submissions but, ultimately, they are just civil servants, people working in the public service for a state. Sometimes that is not widely understood. We have to keep putting that point across.

The Deputy asked an interesting question as to whether there is a wider chessboard. Of course there is a wider chessboard and that is where the real malign forces are. There are people who want to see continuing mayhem and disruption in the Middle East. There is a power play going on between different states and so forth. That is a factor and the Palestinians are suffering because of that. It is not all about Israel. I have disagreed with Israeli policy over the years and with its approach, but it is not all Israel either. There are other states in the region that are relevant. Some are genuinely trying to get a resolution but others are not. There is a bigger power play going on. The Palestinians are collateral damage in the wider regional power play that is going on and we can see that manifest itself in the current situation as well.

Deputy Berry asked a question about a ceasefire. I do not believe Hamas will declare a ceasefire right now. There are different perspectives on what will happen next but I think there will be a ground offensive of some sort. That is just an observation. The precise nature of that offensive is unclear, in terms of how an incursion into Gaza will manifest itself. There will be attempts to try to dismantle Hamas military facilities, hardware and so on. I really worry, vis-à-visthe points made by the Chairman, about the children. The children of Gaza are particularly vulnerable. From a psychological perspective, what they are experiencing now must be horrific, with bombing, mayhem, death and destruction all around them. I am very concerned about health services in Gaza, about hospitals running out of vital equipment and fuel and that has to be a priority. As I said earlier, water is another serious concern. There is an urgent need to get humanitarian aid into Gaza. That is the first thing that we need to do. The most effective way to do that is to have a humanitarian pause, which will allow that to happen. We are in a very dangerous situation now. The Gazan population is really at risk of dehydration and disease because of the absence of the fundamental basics of water and nutrition, never mind the danger of death from bombings and so forth. Our immediate focus, as we interact with others, is on getting humanitarian aid into Gaza as quickly as possible. The Chairman is correct when he says that young people are suffering more than most. We saw that with the music concert-----