James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Tánaiste for coming today. The starting point for this discussion must be the attacks on Israel on Saturday, 7 October. I welcome that there now seems to be consensus that that was an abhorrent event. Some representatives were later than others in condemning that, but that seems to be happening now. I understand the traditional sympathy for Palestine in Ireland. I share that and it is reasonable. However, there is almost a truism that no one can condemn Hamas or express an opinion on the attacks without also listing what the Israelis have done. We can talk about international law and some of the many things that they have got wrong and some things they have done which are out of order.

It does not seem to work the other way. It seems to be fine to slam Israel and march outside the embassy and send email complaints to us. I have received hundreds of emails, as I am sure we all have in recent days. I searched in the emails. It was a template email and I did "CTRL+F" on it. The word "Hamas" does not appear once in the email. I responded to a few of them saying "Thanks for your email. Do Israeli lives not count?". That is the tenor of some of the debate. If people had marched in international capitals outside American embassies after 9-11, people would have rightly asked what was happening here, and why we were condemning the place that has been attacked. Why are we going out to march against embassies? Why are people outside the Israeli embassy in Dublin and trampling on flowers that were laid after 1,400 of its citizens were raped, murdered, taken hostage and carried away across the border?

I think I am a fair-minded person. I understand Israel has not covered itself in glory in how it has managed Palestine in the past. I completely understand that but let us be real here. Abhorrent war crimes have been committed and terrorism brought to the door. As the Tánaiste said, these are Israel's worst fears realised and the reaction in many quarters - I am actually not sure what it says but I am reading between the lines - is not saying something very supportive at all. That is a shocking reflection of the general debate around this. We have to get away from that "Israel bad, Palestine good" narrative and actually look at the picture and say there is fault and right and wrong on all sides. Let us at least try to have a balanced debate.

Senator Craughwell spoke earlier about people getting into a room. This was not organic. This was not a couple of militia running across the border. This was planned, in a room. So was the Wannsee Conference. That conference took place in a room when the Holocaust, the Shoah, as the Tánaiste has referred to, was planned when a group of people sat around a table and planned what happened. I was at Auschwitz earlier this summer and having been somewhere like that, it never leaves you. I understand. I do not defend or justify but I understand why a state like Israel would be so reticent, cautious, security conscious and anxious to defend its borders. What happened, as has been said, was its worst nightmare made real. As I said, I think I am a fair-minded person. I understand the support for Palestine and I share that in many cases but I just do not understand why the reaction cannot transcend that for one moment and say this is an appalling attack on civilians. Let us all be consistent in that.

Moving onto the geopolitics of it, "cui bono?" is always a question to ask in these cases. The movement for stabilisation and the relationship of Israel with other states, not least Saudi Arabia, was beginning to normalise. That is potentially in jeopardy now. The focus has been taken off the Ukraine conflict and the continued eastern European annexation by Russia of states in the Crimea, Georgia, into Ukraine and further on, which we are all familiar with from this committee. Focus has been taken off that. I suspect there are higher-level actors participating in this and encouraging and sponsoring it, like Iran and Russia. It is not too hard to join the dots. There is the possibility of a northern front with Hezbollah being involved. I do not know if the Tánaiste is in a position to share any thoughts on that in terms of the wider geopolitics of it. Is this a move? Is this about inflicting turmoil on a whole other region for the sake of a wider chessboard that is being played by other actors?

I will move on from the Middle East briefly to talk about the consultative forum. I welcome the fact that the Tánaiste brought to Cabinet this morning-----