Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for the presentations and for the work they have done. I am a lot less sceptical than others about the possibility of winning such a referendum. The experience of repealing the eighth amendment and marriage equality shows that the majority, or a significant majority in the case of repeal, can be won for progressive positions. I would have a lot more confidence in the people in a referendum making the right sort of decisions about these things than I would in the Dáil and the Seanad because the influence of polluting industries and so on is significantly greater here than it is among the public as a whole. The question of the rights of nature really goes to the heart, at a deep philosophical level, of the reason we are living through such a disaster.

It is a tendency of this ecocidal capitalist system to treat non-human nature, as it is being referred to, as dead matter, a free gift or effectively a dumping ground. Perhaps Dr. Doran can start with that. It seems that there is an opposition between the rights of nature approach, which I agree with, and the natural capital approach, in which the problem is that capitalism sees nature as a free gift. However, perhaps we can charge capitalism for it by means of carbon trading or whatever and in some way internalise the cost so it is okay still to think of it as a thing to be exploited. Effectively, it seems those are two opposed approaches. Perhaps Dr. Doran can expand on that. He might not answer all the questions because we are running out of time.

It seems it is not an accident that Latin American countries have led the way on this. I presume that is due to the influence of indigenous people’s movements because in many indigenous cultures, the concept of Mother Earth means there is a connection with nature that was at least partially severed by colonialism elsewhere. That is a big factor. I think we have our own traditions to draw upon here. If someone could expand on that, as well as the experience of colonialism in Ireland as concretely severing our human connection with nature, that would be useful.

Third, could someone speak about the practical impact, drawing on the experience of Ecuador, for example, in concrete terms? Let us say we have this referendum, we succeed in getting it into the Constitution and I am part of a community in Leitrim facing gold mining. How will this improve my situation? Let us say I am facing fracking and a motorway. What real impact will it have for people?

Finally, I wish to ask a question of those who have not commented on the question of two votes on two separate questions – environmental rights and rights of nature. Do they also agree it is best to do it in two or is it better to have one combined wording? Part of me worries there could be a situation where people vote for the environmental rights bit to give themselves some rights but the rights of nature sounds a bit fluffy to them. It seems one does not work without the other. There are dangers with having a situation where one could pass while the other fails. If those who are in favour of that want to come in and defend it, I am interested in that. I wish to tease that out.